DH thinks we're going to get arrested in Dubai

[willyougobacktobed]

Going to Dubai next week for Easter on a mini break with DH. As a tactile couple who enjoys a couple of drinks with dinner he's getting really anxious that we're going to get arrested if we a) unthinkingly give each other a peck on the cheek or b) share a bottle of wine and have a giggle.

He has googled their strict laws and legal systems LOTS.

I think he's BU, his worries and mithering are making me not look as forward to a holiday I've saved hard for as much as I otherwise would.

Are we going to get arrested?!

clairemcnam

"italiangreyhound Leaving the Muslim faith in many muslim countries is punishable by death. It is a serious crime. People do not have the choice to choose their religion."

Absolutely. For some that is very true.

Ellenborough the reason so many are talking about Dubai is the laws relating to foreigners.

It isn't just that though - it isn't ever just that. People can't resist the snide little digs at western expats all being shallow and stupid with their head in the sand and they always bring up the 'slavery' thing as though anyone who goes there to work, live or have a holiday must completely endorse it and not give a shit. No-one can EVER just answer the question asked. They can't resist piling on and lecturing the OP on all the other issues which just simply DOES NOT HAPPEN on threads asking about other holiday destinations.

In fact I can guarantee you if someone ever asks about going to an African country and anyone speaks disparagingly about the place or the people or outlines the very real risks of going there, or calls it a 'sjit hole' or a 'hell hole' there is an outcry of 'Racist!' and the post gets reported and swiftly deleted.

Re: Borneo

Okay, only WIKI but there are several other sources to back these figures up in general terms:

Female genital mutilation Type I and IV is prevalent in Indonesia;[149][150][151][152] 97.5%[152] of the surveyed females from Muslim families (Muslim females are at least 85%[153] of females in Indonesia) are mutilated by age 18 (55 million females as of 2018).

Female genital mutilation Type I is prevalent in Malaysia, where 93%[185][186] of females from Muslim families (about 9 million females) in an unpublished study have been mutilated.

Malaysia Borneo Religions. Borneo is a great example of a place where tolerance of religious and political views can create a peaceful and respectful society. The population is approximately split between Islam 60%; Buddhist 19%; Christian 9%; Hindu 6%. Many of the indigenous groups, such as the Penan, are Christian.

I don't know what the percentage of Muslims is for Indonesian Borneo but I know it's a Muslim majority and I know it'a around 87% Muslim in Indonesia overall.

I'll admit I can't find stats on FGM in Borneo specifically and I made the sweeping assumption that as it was a majority Muslim country and split between Malaysia and Indonesia who both have FGM rates of 90%+ within their majority Muslim communities, Borneo would be roughly similar.

Obviously when you take into account the non-Muslims in any of those countries it brings the overall rate down somewhat but even at around 60% or 70% it's still far too high and changes nothing, really.

@ellenborough So are you saying then that everyone should just not along instead of speaking up against the injustices carried out by UAE? And you just believe that everyone should follow their backwards, archaic rules? Should it be okay that I could never visit because I'm in a same sex relationship? Because that's their culture? I honestly don't care. It's ignorance and homophobia regardless of religion. If people refuse to see me as human because of their religion, it's their religion that's wrong and not me.

Further, there are profound differences between someone visiting Dubai and someone visiting an African country/Borneo/Indonesia. Dubai was constructed, on modern slave labour, for rich folk. For tourists. It continues to be constructed by modern slaves who will die building a rich person's playground in a desert where human life at that scale shouldn't exist. Indonesia, 'African countries' (so generalised!) etc aren't constructed around tourists.

Wow I just woke up and this is still rumbling on, but enjoying Ellenboroughs responses.

And yes absolutely correct about Borneo, my mum is from Kota Kinabalu. I wouldn't dare venture into Indonesian Kalimantan but have spent time in Sabah.

The entire point is that nobody jumps on threads about Borneo or India to shout about appalling human/women's rights on any thread about those countries, but always about Dubai.

And my hypothesis stands that it's because snobbery determines that Dubai is full of sun worshipping, shopping love mindless twits who obviously don't give a shit about human rights... it's so hypocritical.

So are you saying then that everyone should just not along instead of speaking up against the injustices carried out by UAE?

No I'm not. I'm saying that people should be more consistent and less arbitrary when deciding where to boycott on grounds of principle. I thought I'd made that perfectly clear several times.

Further, there are profound differences between someone visiting Dubai and someone visiting an African country/Borneo/Indonesia.

I disagree that there are profound differences. Maybe the specific issues for concern pertaining to each place are different, but morally it's the same. If things happen there that you cannot stomach, accept or justify then you should not go.

If you go anyway, in spite of those things, then who are you to tell someone they should not go to Dubai?

Dubai was constructed, on modern slave labour, for rich folk.

As are most booming cities in newly rich countries undergoing rapid development and industrialisation. Just because we don't go there for holidays and sometimes have never heard of them, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Not just to cheap migrant labour but to local employees in countries with poor health and safety standards and little regulation or employee rights.

It is very unlikely that you would get into any sort of trouble in Dubai. I have lived in Dubai for 20+ years and the main issue is not drinking or holding hands etc it's usually arguing and showing disrespect that gets people into trouble when they've been drinking. If someone asks you to stop doing something just apologise and move on.

Yes stroke the thinly veiled snobbery is sickening.

Well you can list all the places in the world with awful human rights. Doesn’t absolve Dubai though does it.

My DH wants to go to Dubai. I’ve told him he will have to go on his own, which he won’t.

Paint a picture of how lovely it is all you want whilst you close your eyes to others suffering. I couldn’t and will not. Perhaps my moral backbone is stronger.

Paint a picture of how lovely it is all you want whilst you close your eyes to others suffering. I couldn’t and will not. Perhaps my moral backbone is stronger.

That is absolutely fine with me (and very admirable) so long as you are consistent and prepared to apply the same strict rule to all other parts of the world where unacceptable things (by our western standards) happen.

Kuala Lumpur though was a whole different level. I wore a black kaftan to the floor but was still catcalled, shouted at and sometimes spat at the whole day.

This is the most bizarre thing I've read on this thread.

I used to go to KL a lot - for both work and pleasure - and as a lone woman traveller, I never experienced anything like this. I'm not saying it didn't happen but it's very weird. All the Brits in my company really liked going to KL as we could get our Nandos/Chilis and Sephora fix plus have a quick spin around Debenhams. (We lived in a different Asian country that didn't have any of these).

The floor length black kaftan is also a weird choice. Western clothes are perfectly acceptable in KL. It's not Iran.

I must admit that post flummoxed me too.

I have friends who have been there, who recommend: complete avoidance of drinking alcohol at all (or under the influence of alcohol) in public places as there are very strict laws. I have heard that hotels are the only places you can really drink and it is expensive

Yes Ellenborough I do. As I said, I have morals. I won’t go to the cesspit of humanity called Dubai.

Where do you go, out of interest?

Or where would you go, given the money/opportunity?

Ooh fetch a saucer of milk!

Dubai is where I change planes. Not a holiday destination if you can't give your OH a cuddle!

I spend half my time in Dubai and half my time in England. You are perfectly able to drink in Dubai but you have to go somewhere licensed. Brunch with unlimited alcohol is huge in Dubai and I've been many times and I haven't met anyone who has been arrested for drinking yet. Everyone gets drunk at brunch. This is not a problem. As for being tactile, just don't be too tactile. Holding hands or a light kiss is fine within a hotel but just do anything more in public. No one wants to see you do that anyway!

Alcohol is quite expensive. There are off licences, but you need an alcohol licence to buy alcohol in these (and you have to be a resident to get an alcohol licence). You can, however, buy 5 litres of alcohol in Duty Free at the airport on arrival and you can very easily buy alcohol in bars and restaurants. Most of these are in hotels.

Unless you have drunken sex in the back of a taxi or on a public/hotel beach or in the pool, you should be fine, OP. I've seen a tourist walk along a jogging path on Jumeirah Beach Walk in nothing but a thong and flip-flops. I was shocked, but no-one else batted an eyelash. Just don't wear beachwear in the malls and you'll be fine. Easter will probably be celebrated by the hotel you're staying in and if you are churchgoers, there will be Easter ceremonies to go to, as well.

Went to dubai with my husband - we managed to be respectful in public and affectionate in private.

Kuala Lumpur though was a whole different level. I wore a black kaftan to the floor but was still catcalled, shouted at and sometimes spat at the whole day.

Where in KL were you? Because having spent time there amongst plenty of Westerners and Muslims alike I'd say this experience is most definitely in the minority... or made up.

ellenborough Yes practices such as FGM happen in a lot of Muslim countries. But I try and be an ethical tourist. You can not go to Dubai and be an ethical tourist, it is just not possible. You can go to Borneo and be an ethical tourist. I do not want my money to be used to as far as possible, to oppress people.
So I buy fairtrade bananas and tea. I do not go to animal shoes where elephants are made to perform. I do not stay in hotels abroad linked to slavery.
I am well travelled and there is a market for ethical tourism so it is quite easy to find this information.
Of course that does not mean that none of my money supports the oppression of people. I am well aware that it is impossible to use any mobile phone or laptop and not do that. But I purposely do not use an iphone as it has particularly bad working conditions.
It is totally impossible to try and be an ethical tourist in Dubai, that is the big difference. That is why people complain about Dubai. It is also impossible to be an ethical tourist in North Korea, but that is not a popular holiday destination.

dumdedum That is foolish. You might get away with it, but you might not.

Went to dubai with my husband - we managed to be respectful in public and affectionate in private.

Exactly! Don't understand adults who cannot refrain from behaving as such with excuses like 'we're just tactile'. Grow up! Or go somewhere else on hols where you can slop all over each other.