To think in general English people do not value education?

[clairemcnam]

It always dismays me how little education seems to be valued in England. Lots of people say they do value education, but in closer questioning this is nearly always a utilitarian approach to education.
So education is valued to get you a good job, or help you earn more money - to help you achieve something else.
But relatively few people seem to value education for its own sake.

[MarianneM]

Yes, definitely!

'The English are a nation of shopkeepers!'

Or should that be entrepreneurs or Instagram influencers?

[MariaNovella]

Nail technicians? Eyebrow threaders?

[yyyyxxxx]

er, not really *MariaNovella". People have been thinking about education for centuries. It goes back even to Plato you know .... Only twatty reductionists and so forth blab on about Brexit at every unrelated opporunity on MN. Its called opportunism ....

Hopefully moving on to the subject in hand ...

[SmarmyMrMime]

I've worked across my county in a variety of schools, and there is a significant element of culture in white, working class towns, of not rising above your station, of not needing an education to get by, because everyone else in your family managed... except a couple of generations back, it didn't matter nearly so much because you could have a job for life down the pit. Now you do need it.

These are familes who've had a very limited range of experiences. They rarely need to travel more than a few miles because their small town contains most of what they need and all their social connections. Occasionally they venture to the nearest seedy sea-side town or the nearest city. If they do go abroad, it's to the resorts that are basically Blackpool with reliable weather. I've had kids be incredulous that I've driven more than 5 miles to work from another town.

Where life is a grind to keep existing it will crush out the energy and the opportunities to better yourself, even if it's the bus fare to the nearest town to go to the nearest free musuem, or having the energy to walk to the library when you're working multiple jobs to get by. Parents may have low education skills often including undiagnosed difficulties such as dyslexia and be unable to offer much support to their children. There is also a lot of pride and saving face. So many times at parent's evening, the conversation has started with me being told by the parent that they hated/ was no good at my subject.

The hardest type of student to teach is the affluent, arrogant one who knows he has a guarenteed job in daddy's business. They are much rarer, but schools in affluent bubbles do have a lazy entitled contingent who expect the world to spoon feed them. The current teach to the test system where teachers can not allow pupils to fail does a lot to feed that and is a major factor in the crisis of teacher retention.

Of course it isn't everyone in England, but there are significant sub-cultures who don't value education, either at all or just for its utilitarian functions in getting a job rather than as a rounded individual.

It's no co-incidence that youth mental health has declined as the curriculum has become more narrowly focused on"academic" subjects and on the outcomes of assessments. It's not the only factor, but it is significant.

From what I understand from Irish family, there is a stronger culture of education for self betterment as mass affluence is comparatively recent over the last 20-30 years. The curriculum does remain broader through the secondary years. When I travelled in India, there was a lot of aspiration and people self-studying at night schools to earn a better place in society for their children's futures.

[yyyyxxxx]

if you can't talk about the subject of education without "referencing" (only a total twat would use that language ) Brexit, you must be a Remoaner.

[bellinisurge]

Ha ha. Live by the word twat etc etc. It's one of my fave insults so I must be one.

[yyyyxxxx]

not sure about the narrow subjects Smarmy - young people have access to amazing subjects now. You can do Photography at "A" level now, imagine! When I was young it was history or geography! But of course they are tested beyond the bounds of sanity.

narrow working class survivalism - you have a point. middle class "getting on" another point. but few value the life of the mind or the heart. perhaps thats human nature but its defintely worse in some ways here. other countries value goodness and spirituality (say, Portugal) or the Arts (say, France). What we value is getting some good "A" levels and becoming a Surveyor.

A bit cliche I know, but in the spirit of the OPs post with which I sympathise

.

[MariaNovella]

SmarmyMrMime - about two decades ago there was a lot of conversation about the knowledge economy, being a service focused country. “Menial” (ie manual labour and manufacturing) were going to be outsourced to other countries with a less educated workforce.

It hasn’t worked and it’s pretty obvious why - all countries have their share of citizens who need non cerebral jobs. The arrogance was breathtaking...

[yyyyxxxx]

don't agree Lady, I think that view is ofen repeated, but really the general study at GCSE provides a broad enough base! E.g. I don't see why people who are not interested in Maths or Science or whatever should be forced to study it at "A" levels. I did science and maths at GCSE level and have quite a broad understanding as a result!

[goodfornothinggnome]

Hmm. I can see what you mean, because peoples explanation to their children is often based on the fact that having an education will make it somewhat easier to get a decently paid job however, I believe you have oversimplified the whole situation.

So very many people do judge on levels and area of education, regardless of salary expectation.