It's not the same , he's not married.

[smallereveryday]

Had a bit of a falling out with a close friend as she is having an affair. It's difficult because she is a really close friend a god mother to two of our children. Someone whose morals and judgment I've held in high esteem for 30+ years.
Friend is separated. Very amicable ,Ex- Husband lives in Annex attaches to house and on-Hand for kids should he be required. (Mid/late teens)..

She started this affair 2 yrs ago and was the catalyst to end her long dead marriage.
I have made my feelings very clear in the matter and have told her not to discuss it with me unless she wants a row. We try to spend time together avoiding the subject but inevitably it spills over.

Friend believes she is doing nothing wrong as she is separated (mid divorce Nisi received etc) and Affair partner never married. This, to my friends mind makes all the difference. She maintains that she can only commit adultery with a married man.. and he isn't. ! This has been fuelled by AP now proposing . He maintains he is free to do so despite currently living with his partner because he has 'never loved her enough to marry her' (yet still managed to make two kids with her). Now - loves middle-aged dream has changed all that ).

He has just put a hefty deposit down for a new home for both of them , so am pretty sure this is all happening. Obviously I don't know all the gory details as TRY not to get in to it.

AIBU to say that it makes no bloody difference if he's married or not. This does not excuse this behaviour. He is in a relationship with children. Friend maintains that I'm talking nonsense. He has never legally committed to his partner so it's her fault for agreeing to have children without legal safeguards. Unbelievably of the 4 other couples who know about this ALL the husbands and 3 of the Wives agree that as he isn't married , there isn't an issue and he is free to do as he pleases. Am I really that out of step ?

Im so disappointed. This man seems to have changed my normally sensible, kind thoughtful and above all moral friend into someone so willing to compromise her beliefs in such a selfish way.

Sad to say, it's the unmarried wife's poor judgement that has put her in this position

It's her fault she got cheated on?

Well it's all hit the fan. Someone (not me I promise) has told her about the house. He has left. Friend is abroad on business today and tomorrow and has just told me that she thinks she should take a step back for a while !! As 'doesn't want to make matters worse '
Don't know if he has told her about OW.

@TheTitOfTheIceberg I agree that it might be true, but cheaters tell their OW a pack of lies, to try to paint their partners as some horrible ogre, to justify why they need to seek comfort and love elsewhere. He's also financially abusive (hiding his real income and savings from her, and only giving her an allowance. Not marrying her, so she has no legal rights to a fair split of the assets) and there have been financially abused women on here, who have said that their husbands/partners won't let them work.

OP how does "taking a step back" work, when she's just bought a house with him?

Your whole circle sounds unpleasant, TBH, if they're all agreeing with her.

What do(es) she/they say if you point out that his children will be very hurt by the break up of their family?

Or when you point out that this prize of a man had children out of their much-prized wedlock?

I hope the whole thing turns into a car crash for both of them, they totally deserve it.

A marriage represents literally the commitment between two partners, so you can’t say this commitment is there if at the same time you don’t want to get married, ie you don’t want this commitment IYSWIM.

If I want to make a lasting commitment to someone, I'll make that vow to them and I'll stick to it. Having children with them is a lifelong commitment. Mortgages are a 25 year commitment. Marriages often come and go. I have an issue with the current western tradition of marriage. It's patriarchal, it's based on the idea of women as property exchanged between men and it's Christian in outlook. Now I know full well that other people have a very different take on marriage, but I dislike it in its current form.

I'll happily make a commitment to the right man but I'm very dubious about marriage. Of course commitment can be there without marriage. The problem is that as society is currently run, it leaves you open to legal problems if you split.

I think the issue and view of marriage very much depends upon your social circle, geographic situation, upbringing/family expectations, educational attainment and knowledge of what the marriage contract actually confers on those entering in to it.

It is almost rare in my area - wealthy middle class , Home Counties , Tertiary educated , mid 50s , Not to be married. Probably lived with partner in 20s /early 30s with both contributing to a large mortgage until babies are planned. That remains the woman's 'bargaining chip'. You want babies dp ? Not without marriage. End of.
Just so no one ends up facing the horrible reality that the APs partner is facing.

This needs teaching in schools at 15/16. No one should be forced to marry but should be obliged to know the law and more importantly that cohabitation confers no rights on pensions, property or other assets in the partners name. Then make your decision to have children without marriage based on full knowledge of the facts. It MAY be the best option for you if you have a high earning job and/or independent wealth but women in that situation are few and far between.

It would also (hopefully) encourage women to be more circumspect with regard to planning their families. Once they are aware of the only way to receive financial help for their child following a split, is to pursue a child maintenance claim and we all know what a shower of shit that is for those who don't want to pay.

@smallereveryday - the upbringing you describe is very much mine and that of my circle.

However I think this is something mothers need to be talking about with their daughters, as part of ongoing discussions. Why leave it to schools?

For the record, I also don't get why people come on and accuse people of being 'judgmental', as if it's some sort of mortal insult.

I freely admit to being judgmental about many, many things (affairs included - and I say this as someone who stupidly had a brief fling with a non-married older man in my 20s. In hindsight, I judge myself harshly). And accusing me of being judgmental will only ever result in a, 'yes? So what?'

Yes of course. I agree Yemen. What I meant to say is that this information must be imparted in school along side discussions at home. My concern though is that in many social groups where marriage is not such a prevalent status. If you come from a home where your parents aren't married- they may not have the correct information to impart.

Even small things are not commonly known. Like a marriage can be contracted for as little as £76. ! When you plan to have children and property and almost inevitably going to take a hit on your career and earnings during child rearing years - why on earth would you not protect yourself with a quick legal contact marriage and save for a party/wedding later ? If you are desperate for babies but can't afford the whole shebang.

Studies have shown that in the USA at least marriage is becoming a middle and upper class institution. Rather than "trapping women in a patriarchal institution" married women are statistically wealthier and therefore more economically secure. Working class women struggle to find men who are willing and able to get married as without a university education or skilled training of some kind, they are not earning enough to make marriage viable. It is only those cultures that highly value marriage and are usually religious (Catholic, Orthodox Jew, Mormon, Muslim, Hindu) that are still producing working class marriages. Otherwise statistically they have taken a nosedive.

Just had a quick Google www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/marriages-men-women-lowest-record-heterosexual-lgbt-ons-a8232751.html%3famp and am shocked to be honest at how late people are getting married in the UK: an average of over 35 for women and over 38 for men. Although statistically apparently that's "dragged up' by second marriages. So maybe they should just look at age at first marriage.

Also the commentary spins it as a positive but I would guess that people would like to get married younger but financial burdens such as student loans mean they postpone a wedding. Also women may be struggling to find a man who is marriage material and willing to commit, an issue that crops up on MN a lot.

OP, I agree with you about this

God that poor woman. Cant imagine how she must be feeling right now - not only did that turd not marry her but he is now buggering off and has a new woman and house to boot! What a blow.

So the deed is done. He has told her all about my friend and in time honoured style has put the boot in further by announcing that he and OW are officially engaged (I honestly didn't know that and am quite shocked) AND to add insult to injury - has laid the blame for the end of the relationship squarely at her door.. 'apparently' she has been 'piss taking for years' - 'able to work ' as youngest is 16 but happy to lay all the financial burden on him. Whilst she 'Rides,shops and plays tennis with her friends'...

hmm and the answer to that is to have an affair?

No mention of the value of being a mother and looking after a big house for 22yrs. But 'because he isn't a bastard ' and 'doesn't want the grief' has told her she can have 'his' house.

That's all right then. 🙄

Friend is relived it's done and on a high to have her 'prize'.

I have decided I now need to distance myself at least until this immediate situation has calmed as I cannot be happy for her.

Urgh. Yuck update.

No words. And she’s prepared to marry this creature.