It's not the same , he's not married.

[smallereveryday]

Had a bit of a falling out with a close friend as she is having an affair. It's difficult because she is a really close friend a god mother to two of our children. Someone whose morals and judgment I've held in high esteem for 30+ years.
Friend is separated. Very amicable ,Ex- Husband lives in Annex attaches to house and on-Hand for kids should he be required. (Mid/late teens)..

She started this affair 2 yrs ago and was the catalyst to end her long dead marriage.
I have made my feelings very clear in the matter and have told her not to discuss it with me unless she wants a row. We try to spend time together avoiding the subject but inevitably it spills over.

Friend believes she is doing nothing wrong as she is separated (mid divorce Nisi received etc) and Affair partner never married. This, to my friends mind makes all the difference. She maintains that she can only commit adultery with a married man.. and he isn't. ! This has been fuelled by AP now proposing . He maintains he is free to do so despite currently living with his partner because he has 'never loved her enough to marry her' (yet still managed to make two kids with her). Now - loves middle-aged dream has changed all that ).

He has just put a hefty deposit down for a new home for both of them , so am pretty sure this is all happening. Obviously I don't know all the gory details as TRY not to get in to it.

AIBU to say that it makes no bloody difference if he's married or not. This does not excuse this behaviour. He is in a relationship with children. Friend maintains that I'm talking nonsense. He has never legally committed to his partner so it's her fault for agreeing to have children without legal safeguards. Unbelievably of the 4 other couples who know about this ALL the husbands and 3 of the Wives agree that as he isn't married , there isn't an issue and he is free to do as he pleases. Am I really that out of step ?

Im so disappointed. This man seems to have changed my normally sensible, kind thoughtful and above all moral friend into someone so willing to compromise her beliefs in such a selfish way.

I would absolutely judge. I hope your soon to be ex friend gets a good dose of karma. Sadly I don't think karma gets the people that it really should.

I make moral judgements as without then humans are like any other animal. Our morals and beliefs are what make us human. Of course some people have bad moral and bad beliefs but you have a choice to he friends with them or not. I would not.

These who said you help friends through thick and thin so would you still be friends if they were a murderer or rapist? You would have have red line but you are basically saying that an affair is on the right side of your red line.

Haven’t read the whole thread but technically you and all your mates plus Tom, Dick and Harry can also fuck her boyfriend until the day she marries him and she’s be cool with that?

After all she’s not married to him either.

So presumably if he is shagging a third woman she's totally OK with it because they're not married?

Yes, ask her that op.

YANBU. Cheating is wrong whether married with or without children or unmarried with or without children, really makes no difference. I’m afraid I would be dropping this friend.

@Unfinishedkitchen I completely agree with you. I can't see why all the single women for miles around aren't having a shag fest quite frankly. I'm sure Friend wouldn't mind a bit

Oh god the poor partner and kids. I am not married and have been with my partner for over 10 years, we have kids. We are as committed as any married couple and i would be as gutted if he cheated on me married or not. His behaviour towards his poor partner is completely awful especially considering the children link. They are tied together because of the kids, they will need to co-parent. His behaviour and intentions to screw his partner over show that hes not only a cheat but a complete cock. No regard for his kids and the financial shit hes going to dump them in.
Hes a top catch

I have met people who think that if a couple isn't married and have been together a long time they are not committed.

In this case it is just a convenient excuse she uses to deflect criticism.

This man seems to have changed my normally sensible, kind thoughtful and above all moral friend into someone so willing to compromise her beliefs in such a selfish way.

That's a cop-out. He's not chained her to him, has he? She's free to say no.

ChippyPicledEggs

wouldn't want to be friends with someone who judged others like that. I agree that in an ideal world we don't hurt and deceive others. It is not behaviour to strive for. Nobody thinks that is a good thing to do. But in reality humans do not behave perfectly. Nobody does. And there is more than one way to destroy a relationship.

This is exactly my problem. For 32 it's my friend has not put a step wrong. Been a great mother, and godmother to my children. We are very close. This affair has changed her . Without the OM in the mix there is no difference to her but it has changed who I thought she was (and has been for 3 decades).

For those doubting that he will marry her. I don't have the same doubts. Friend has substantial assets. Deposit of 180k has been paid jointly.
Apparently (and please don't take this as gospel as I have only heard the APs version via friend) but AP has been 'begging' his partner to get a job for years and is 'sick to the back teeth of being treated like a meal ticket for life'. Children are all old enough not to require child care .

Even if it all goes tits up. Friend is high earner and never need to rely on AP for money. In some ways - if he didn't already have a family , they are well suited.

Well, he's probably spun your friend a line about his partner. It's more likely, that she's (APP) been begging him to allow her to get a job, but he's not allowed it. He's financially abusive, so he's not going to want her to have an income of her own, as then he can't control her as much.

So take that with a huge pinch of salt. These men always project their own failings on their partners. And cheaters always tell the other woman that their partner is controlling, or will never have sex, or 101 other "reasons" why they need to find solace in another woman's arms.

I'm not taking anything as true - that comes via him. He tells her his version of course.!

smallereveryday - yeah, right, I'm sure he's a wilting violet who has literally been begging his heartless, feckless partner to get paid work. I'm sure there hasn't been the tiniest hint of criticising or haranguing (now he doesn't need her for childcare). Poor fellow, to have so much money for a deposit for a new lovenest when his lazy no good partner does nothing to help him in his noble ventures.

And in all honesty, if your friend thinks she can stand in judgement on the man's partner for being unmarried and not having a job, then she deserves to get it back with both barrels for being a sanctimonious bitch herself.

Walkaround . I am hoping that isn't a criticism? I clearly said I Don't take anything she says as gospel as it comes third hand via friend from AP !!!

.. and am awake at gone 2am trying to come to terms with losing my best friend of thirty years because I can't accept her choice of partner.

smallereveryday - it's a criticism of her, not you. It's one thing to have a secretive affair and to secretly buy a house with your lover, and another to justify it to yourself by blaming the unwitting partners. She is behaving badly and in an underhand fashion and is incapable of acknowledging that, because it doesn't suit her image of herself. She seems to feel the need to claim some kind of moral superiority where there is none.

It's weird that people fall for someone who has treated another appallingly, maybe it gives them a feeling of worthiness however misplaced that is. He is showing his true colours, he has no feelings of remorse or guilt especially towards his children. Your friend is deluded. If she had no money I doubt he would even be considering a future with her.

That's my problem with this. How can my lovely, intelligent , KIND friend of thirty plus years turn into such a stupid, selfish arse simply by meeting a man ?
It's not as though she lacks self esteem. She is a very attractive, bright , woman at the very top of her career in a male oriented field. Has had no lack of Male attention or opportunity over the years and has been adamant that is not something she would consider because she was married and often - so were the men making the moves.

I can remember the countless times I've heard her say how unacceptable and unnecessary cheating was. So why has this man changed all she believes?

However this thread really wasn't meant to be about her . (It's fine btw - she definitely isn't on here ) I am not her. I cannot direct or dictate her relationship.
It was about how I respond to her relationship and now handle our friendship - a really long and deep friendship, with someone I love hugely but really don't like very much at the moment.

Mmh I would say it is worse to be with a married man than to be with a man that is only «in a relationship».
A marriage represents literally the commitment between two partners, so you can’t say this commitment is there if at the same time you don’t want to get married, ie you don’t want this commitment IYSWIM.

Yanbu.

Ok so technically it’s not adultery, but it’s cheating ffs. Total lack of respect for the woman he’s lived with and had children with. I would judge as well, OP.

It's more likely, that she's (APP) been begging him to allow her to get a job, but he's not allowed it.

While this guy doesn't exactly sound like a prince, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this aspect is true. I once managed a male member of my team who I was worried about because he was working far too many hours, putting himself forward for every bit of overtime going. Eventually, in one of the sessions I had with him to get to the bottom of why he was over-extending himself (it was starting to have an impact on his work as he was so tired he'd started making uncharacteristic mistakes), he broke down and admitted he was worried about money as his wife refused to look for even a PT job even though their children were secondary school age by then.

It's not the case that a cheated-on woman, or indeed any woman, is 100% perfect in every way. Obviously that doesn't mean any flaws she may have justify her partner cheating on her, but being cheated on doesn't automatically make someone a saint.

@Justwomoresecs, that is the most ridiculous bollocks. And I say that as someone who's married.

TheTit - of course it's got bugger all to do with saints... It's not on to justify your own bad behaviour by blaming it on someone else, which is what the OP's friend is doing by claiming it's OK because the man is unmarried (despite living in a family home as part of a couple with children, with someone else who must, apparently, be lied to until the star crossed lovers have been sampling each other for two years and have bought themselves a property). You don't set up a home with someone, have children with them and leave yourself financially reliant on them if you do not think you are in a committed relationship. This is just a man who has got fed up with his current responsibilities and commitments, who is jumping ship and trying to get away with being as financially and emotionally mean to his ex-partner as he possibly can by claiming he never promised her a thing and she was always lazy and useless, anyway. If she was that appalling, he didn't need to find a new lover before he left her. He could have left her years ago, if that was the right thing to do.

@smallereveryday I'd say that all you can do is what you are. Refuse to engage about the relationship and therefore condone but say you'll be there for her.

Sounds as if you have made it clear to her that you think she can do better than give her heart to someone deceiving too women. Unfortunately she doesn't agree. Not much you can do

Sad to say, it's the unmarried wife's poor judgement that has put her in this position. She should have married him, louse that he is.

And he, of course, is the absolute villain of the piece,.

But I think you should keep your nose out. Judge your own life, not your friend's.