It's not the same , he's not married.

[smallereveryday]

Had a bit of a falling out with a close friend as she is having an affair. It's difficult because she is a really close friend a god mother to two of our children. Someone whose morals and judgment I've held in high esteem for 30+ years.
Friend is separated. Very amicable ,Ex- Husband lives in Annex attaches to house and on-Hand for kids should he be required. (Mid/late teens)..

She started this affair 2 yrs ago and was the catalyst to end her long dead marriage.
I have made my feelings very clear in the matter and have told her not to discuss it with me unless she wants a row. We try to spend time together avoiding the subject but inevitably it spills over.

Friend believes she is doing nothing wrong as she is separated (mid divorce Nisi received etc) and Affair partner never married. This, to my friends mind makes all the difference. She maintains that she can only commit adultery with a married man.. and he isn't. ! This has been fuelled by AP now proposing . He maintains he is free to do so despite currently living with his partner because he has 'never loved her enough to marry her' (yet still managed to make two kids with her). Now - loves middle-aged dream has changed all that ).

He has just put a hefty deposit down for a new home for both of them , so am pretty sure this is all happening. Obviously I don't know all the gory details as TRY not to get in to it.

AIBU to say that it makes no bloody difference if he's married or not. This does not excuse this behaviour. He is in a relationship with children. Friend maintains that I'm talking nonsense. He has never legally committed to his partner so it's her fault for agreeing to have children without legal safeguards. Unbelievably of the 4 other couples who know about this ALL the husbands and 3 of the Wives agree that as he isn't married , there isn't an issue and he is free to do as he pleases. Am I really that out of step ?

Im so disappointed. This man seems to have changed my normally sensible, kind thoughtful and above all moral friend into someone so willing to compromise her beliefs in such a selfish way.

If you are in a relationship with a person and you are either married or cohabiting and one of the party doesn’t like or even love the other person anymore then it is cheating to start another relationship when you have not endend the relationship your currently in.

I’m presuming his partner has not been told she is about to be replaced?

Cheaters tell themselves anything to justify their behaviour. Yanbu.

YANBU and yes you are being judgmental...............I would be too. It's a very cold and calous way to look at it to say "tough shit you aren't married" I wonder if this guy would think the same if he found out that his partner(mother of his kids partner) was cheating on him? I bet he would have a different opinion then, these kind of men often think with a do as I say not as I do attitude

I don’t think a friend should condone anything they are not comfortable with. If you are doing something wrong a friend has the right to call you out!

OP I am on your side .. karma will bite them both.. the guy should man up & let his OH know that he has checked out of their relationship and your friend should keep her business her own and not involve you as you have kindly asked her not to!

@Awrite what exactly should OP do, buy them a housewarming present for their disgusting self absorbed “love nest”?

I’m all for being so so judgemental with people who sink as low as this.

If she is justifying it by telling herself it's fine since they're not married, I'd be asking her about the children stuck in this. She may put that back on the parents and say it's on them and they're the ones not thinking it through, but it is her actions.

I would be judgemental about this. She could have waited until he'd ended the relationship with his partner. I know life is messy sometimes. But she needs to realise that her actions are contributing to ripping a family apart. If she's as honest as you say she is, eventually she'll wake up to herself. I'd cool the friendship for now but stay in touch and see if she does work out how bad it all is. People are odd though. Even the seemingly most decent and moral can fail to take responsibility for their actions.

Why does she want to be with someone who is with someone else? I always wonder this about OW/M - a quick shag I can almost understand (but not condone, just to be clear) but something long term with a person who is in a relationship? What on earth does she get out of it, other than the knowledge that she will never be good enough?

I’d dump her as a friend tbh, you could never trust her round any partners you may have. If the bloke was married there’d be some other excuse “he says they never have sex anymore”, I don’t buy that she’d never go near a married man.

Hes as good as married though, hes in a long term relationship with kids. Its not very good that she has hurt another family.
He'll do the same to her as well.
I'd just tell her I cant listen to it and distance myself. Its nothing to do with you and she should respect your wishes. If she doesn't then I'd move on from her.

Yanbu and you are not being judgmental;. Its ok to criticise negative behaviours in others. There's a difference between making judgments of harmful behaviours, and ''being judgmental''.

OP - I had a thread a few years ago in which I judged my DPs sis, who had taken up with a man (not married, but LTR with 2 kids) and I was severely flamed. She was a lady-of-the-manor type, previously married to the village doctor, (her DH left her for OW) and the Affair Partner was the village handyman. I was told I was being judgey, that she was single now and so was he (technically), that I should keep out and be happy for her and that her arrangements with her/DPs mum were none of my business, even though dp asked me to be involved as he was worried about his mum. And this was in Relationships, not AIBU!

Strange place, MN sometimes. Sometimes people with morals are flamed, sometimes lauded. Personally I agree with you. Men in relationships, esp with kids, are off limits.

Cinnamonhazelnut, it is OP’s business, insofar as it is something to take into account as to whether to be friends with this woman.

If you saw someone being cruel to someone else in a more overt way - such as screaming abuse in the street, then they invited you round for a cuppa, would you not take their nastiness into account?

I'm not pro cheating but you sound so, so judgemental

If a person chooses to have an affair they should prepare to be judged

Yanbu op

If a person chooses to have an affair they should prepare to be judged

Absolutely.

Your friend is being a total arsehole

So what if he leaves his family for her but then before they get married he starts an affair with someone else well that's fair game yes?? Idiotic logic

My ex cheated on me. We had a child. Not married. It was devastating. I hope your friend gets cheated on herself. She’s not married yet, so why not?

So presumably if he is shagging a third woman she's totally OK with it because they're not married?

Well if she isn't doing anything wrong why does AP's partner and kids know what's going on? Why all the secrecy if everything's above board? Your not so nice friend will be next (I hope)!

*not know!

Does AP's gf know??

Legal status aside, in terms of whether someone is a cheat, I think that marriage and cohabitation are equal, especially when children are present. So I agree with you OP.

However, the legal position is undeniably different and this thread shows that sometimes when men “don’t believe in marriage” or “don’t see the point”, it’s really that they’re keeping their options open because it’s legally and practically easier to leave a girlfriend than to leave a wife. That’s just the way it is. And women continue to allow themselves to become pregnant by such men - it’s baffling.

Finally OP, don’t allow yourself to become stressed. Distance yourself a little.

If we didn't judge to a certain degree, the world would be a awful.

It's human
nature to judge. Anyway who says they don't is lying.

I dont blame you for judging her. Take a step back and try to think about what is likely to happen and how you are going to react to it. Is she part of a group of friends and will she expect her new partner to be included in the group. I suspect this will be a lot harder than seeing her alone and not talking about it.

Well, technically he’s not married so he can literally just walk away from his relationship and the partner will get nothing. But if they started the relationship while he was still in a committed relationship with someone else then of course morally it’s still reprehensible.

Having said that, I would question what kind of relationship he’s in where he’s been able to put down a sizeable deposit on a house to move into with the OP and his partner doesn’t know? I suspect that there’s more to this than the OP is aware of and that the partner either knows or the relationship is already well on its way to having been ended.

My son asked me a few years back why hasn't his uncle married his gf. They had a 3yr old and twins on the way. I said maybe they want a big wedding or he's not ready to commit.
My ds said he committed when he started making babies.
My ds was 11 at the time.

Your friend Op, can give as many reasons for why her man isn't really in a relationship, but that says more about him and his actions to his responsibilities than the actual relationship.

People should stay out of other peoples relationships because soon enough the tables will turn.