AIBU to think teacher and possibly school way out of line and WWYD?

[AstoundedandConfounded]

Name changed in case I somehow out myself!

I was mistakenly sent an email by a teacher from DS's school, which said about me "Don't you just wish you could tell her to piss off. It's clear where DS gets it from."

Just to clarify DS is in 6th form and I've emailed the school 3 times in his 6 years, so I'm not an annoying helicopter mother.

I am not happy about any of this, to say the least. I've been in touch with the head, shared the email and said I want to discuss it and received an apology back.

I have a meeting set up for this Thursday and am struggling to know how best to handle it. The issue I originally emailed in about was handled so badly that I think that is still my priority but I'm really hacked off that teachers are bad mouthing me and my DS (who is a good pupil) in emails.

WWYD?

Yes Holes, I see that, as I’ve just said (cross post?).

I think the Elysian ideal of a school with a culture of only sweetness and light in the staffroom is a bit of a stretch though, OP. I know I’m paraphrasing. I’m afraid you are on a hiding to nothing with that one.

@EffYouSeeKaye
Wasn't cross post I was just saying I totally agreed with your post - wasn't trying to argue!

I'm intrigued about the idea that a teenager should have the maturity to raise potential issues which could 'make a teacher look stupid' outside of class, but we aren't expecting the teacher to have the maturity to deal with being challenged in front of their students in an appropriate manner. I appreciate that unnecessary interruptions to a class are unwelcome, but if a teacher has made a genuine mistake, why should the students be held to a higher standard of maturity in addressing it?

My experience is that some schools do encourage a more positive attitude to parents than others. Some parents are very difficult and you'd have to be a saint not to be angry and have a huge rant to your colleagues/friends/family. On the other hand I do think there are schools with a culture of having a kind of eye rolling attitude even to perfectly reasonable parents. My Dc have moved schools and I've noticed a huge difference in how collaborative the schools have been with parents. In one school they were very dismissive to almost all parents concerns - refusing to acknowledge SEN (until parents had to pay for private assessments and even then it was only grudgingly accepted). Their current school couldn't be more different. they're always willing to discuss problems with parents and it works really well - often just a simple bit of communication will resolve the issue and when it's a deeper problem it helps to work together. Parents feel less fobbed off.

I don't feel humiliated either. So many emotions being attributed to me that I don't feel. I wonder if this is part of the problem that people make assumptions about how others might feel and then go on the defensive without ever finding out how that person actually sees the situation or feels.

Eff, I'm really sorry your colleague had a bad situation with a bullying parent. I hope your school fulfilled their obligations to your colleague, as a member of staff, and didn't just leave them to deal with it alone. There should be policies and procedures in place to protect staff just as much as there should be for pupils.

Oh sorry Holes! Must drink coffee quicker to wake brain.

Thanks op. You’d hope so, wouldn’t you? I’d love to say that was the case. I’ve seen parents get away with horrendous behaviour over the years and it’s always the pupils who lose out, ultimately. Anyway, that’s another thread.

You’re right about the assumption. I would be humiliated, for sure, amongst many other things. But I hate assumptions, I see them all the time on MN and it infuriates me, so that’ll learn me.

Good luck with your situation.

Hole but the OP is now saying she doesn't think that workers should ever bitch about anything, whether on email or via any other method. And one email doesn't equal 'a culture of bitching'.

Is it wrong to aspire to no bitching? Is that such a bad thing to want?

What benefit does bitching ever bring? I see the benefit of venting, of getting things off your chest, of sharing a worry, a concern or simply just stating that a situation is driving you nuts. No problem with any of that at all. I think it is necessary and healthy and often someone can give you a different insight, a solution or good idea. This thread would be a perfect example. Other than people telling me my DS is probably a pain in the arse, it has largely been problem solving and helpful and no one has said anything mean, hurtful or offensive about the teachers whose mistake the thread is about.

What good does bitching do though? You are just spreading negativity and meanness - or have I got that wrong? How does saying unpleasant things about someone else make a situation better? The fact that nearly all posters think that the teacher who wrote that email about me and DS is squirming, is surely an indication that saying stuff like that is never right and not just because she was caught out on this occasion?

No, I think most posters know that she's squirming because she was caught out.

Where I work is a very cheerful place and I'm frequently in tears of laughter here, there is lots of joking and ribbing - and yes, a bit of bitching. But the job gets done and done well and we are a good team who help each other out and who work with our colleagues (who yes, we might occasionally bitch about) to do the best we can for our clients (who we also sometimes bitch about).

Because we're grown ups.

OP you sound measured and sensible. I’d be all guns blazing if it were me but I am not known for my calm and sensible approach to conflict resolution.

Can’t get past the fact that they MEASURE SKIRT LENGTHS. Anyone else picturing Sr Michael from Derry Girls with a ruler ??

The fact that nearly all posters think that the teacher who wrote that email about me and DS is squirming, is surely an indication that saying stuff like that is never right and not just because she was caught out on this occasion? No, it really is the being caught out.

When teachers vent about a pupil or parent it is often a quick and BIG vomit of emotion. Then, after the amused / shocked intake of breath, we all go back to 'normal-for-the-classroom'. Part of the problem is we have to hold it in for at least an horu, then only have 3 or 4 minutes to get it out of our system before the next constraint falls into place. So some staffrooms can be quite a surprise for NQTs!

The fact that nearly all posters think that the teacher who wrote that email about me and DS is squirming, is surely an indication that saying stuff like that is never right and not just because she was caught out on this occasion?

I'd have no problem it being on a personal email or message. Id have no problem it being on a school email if there wasn't the pesky problem of Subject access requests or accidentally sending it to the parent.

Its human to have an opinion and get annoyed about stuff. Its also normal to express that to others. Its unprofessional to express that in a way that means the parent could find out eg through a subject access request, to the parents face sending the email to the wrong person

You need to be careful of assuming people think the same way as you or will read an incident the same way. Tread carefully Thursday

As ever, no assumptions made GreenEggs - I asked a question, which left it open to people to disagree.

I don't really see how an email mistakenly sent to me at 4.50pm can be in any way construed as a "vomit of emotion between classes".

I'm unlikely to ever agree that bitching, gossip, tittle tattle and being negative and rude about people behind their back is a good idea but that doesn't mean I will be sharing my thoughts about that at the meeting with the Head.

I've been going through the school ethos, aims and values and clearly they are absolute make believe, if what I'm hearing from teachers on this thread is anything to go by. Whatever, the pupils and parents might be told about:

"fostering positive relationships between staff and parents"

"helping pupils develop creative, lively and critically enquiring minds and the ability to question and discuss rationally",

"having high standards of conduct and behaviour, which enable all members of our school, pupils and staff, to stand up for what is right, to respect and care for the lives, opinions and happiness of others"

"promoting a spirit of reflective dialogue among all members of our school"

Not to mention the 20 point list of Christian Values that staff are supposed to be promoting!!!

It seems to be meaningless verbiage.

one ill-advised email doesn't negate all that, though, does it? Though other things you've said about the school, with regard to the bullying and the girls' skirts, for example, certainly do.

You dont actually take stock by those things? They mostly all say the same thing in different ways.

If you want to look for the ethos of a school look at the stuff they arent saying, look at what shoes the kids (especially the girls) are wearing, what theyre special needs provision looks like (even if you dont use it), whether they school uniform is machine washable or costs a fortune.

But ultimately you gave chosen a school that is hot on discipline, that thinks that measuring a child's skirt and fits with those written values. But your child has done well there. Pulling apart their key values to little purpose now is pointless.

OP it was April Foolsday yesterday, you don't have a friend who works at the school do you??! Some people have a weird sense of "humour"...

As I said earlier in the thread GreenEggs, I didn't choose a CofE school, it was the only option in our area that was in a reasonable commuting distance for my DC. Rural area with limited "choice", or I could argue no choice.

GreenEggs out of interest, what do the girls' shoes show you about a school? Genuine question!

But I think you need to stop and question why your son is perceived in this way as teachers don't take against children for no good reason

Considering the fact that (in secondary at least) we see up to a few hundred children for 2-3 hours a week each, maybe even less in some subjects, often at their most bored, pissed off or defiant, I think it would be amazing if we didn't wrongly develop a bad impression of some children for no good reason. When you have so little time with each individual child, it's easy to think of them as annoying or badly behaved based on a few small incidents or their one-off attitude when they've had a bad day. Any professional teacher won't discriminate in the way they treat children because of this, but it definitely happens.

I would have loved to have seen the look on that teachers face, when she realised the email had gone to the parent by mistake. Must have been in such a panic 😆 Serves them right for slagging parents off to each other! Very unprofessional!

Write to the board of governors, and to county hall if necessary to escalate the complaint. Ask the head how they are handling the situation and what action they have take with said member of staff. If it is not a written warning i would tell them it's not acceptable as had they not sent it to you by accident it would go unpunished. How many times have they done this and got away with it over the years.

Yes teachers do bitch about kids and parents in the staff room
You should at least get an apology and an explanation
This is very unethical

Im worried you are building yourself into a proper frenzy when actually theres not a lot wrong and in the wider scheme of things your son is doing well.

Going over the core values doesnt achieve much if the school don't view the incident in the same way you do.

Keep outcomes in mind. I need xyand z to happen for DS to feel safe. They cant argue with how your child feels and if xy and z is reasonable, they look unreasonable by refusing

If youre going in a saying the behaviour contravenes your core values and they dont agree; all that is going to happen is that your DS's otherwise very sucessful schooling career us going to be overshadowed by this incident.

Of course i dont know what the original incident was. But i suspect you are the kind of involved parent that if a major bullying incident did occur you would act immediately and you wouldnt be attending a meeting at least a week after the event.

If you at the stage your angrily pulling apart core values, either your trying to justify a compartively mild case or the relationship with the school has entirely broken down and you need to be taking him out.

Either way i wonder what actual outcome you are expecting from the school on Thursday.

The fact that nearly all posters think that the teacher who wrote that email about me and DS is squirming, is surely an indication that saying stuff like that is never right and not just because she was caught out on this occasion?

On the other hand I don't think this is true either. I've been working in education forever (not always as a teacher) and don't think I could name a single colleague who hasn't at some point said 'ugh, X is such a dickhead' or similar after a frustrating lesson. Among ourselves we all know that we don't really mean it, no-one actually thinks X is an irredeemably horrible person or wishes them any ill, but if X's parent overheard they understandably wouldn't take it the same way, and it would be mortifying.