To think “love” is a load of bollox for most women?!

[Playtive]

It’s brightly packaged and sold to us but it’s all nonesense really. Even when you smugly think you’ve cracked it - fast forward 10 years and nope, no you haven’t. It’s all compromise and sacrifice, boredom and indifference.

Men are obsolete. I have my DC, I literally can’t think of a single other reason to want a man around. It’s all bullshit, I wish we never had “Hollywood” this side of the globe - many people would be a lot less disillusioned.

Anywho that’s my rant!

oh BeardyButton
I dare to disagree but state that for some of us a relationship is a happy thing, that we don't lose one iota of freedom, that we are just as independent, fulfilled and happy than a single person!
and I state that when someone has to accuse all happily married women to be suffering from boredom, sacrificing themselves, they must be bitter, I am the one spreading nastiness?

come on now my dear, who is angry here

The beauty of our world is that I don't need to be married or in a relationship, we work, own properties, drive, manage our finances, our travels, our pensions, our kids education, we vote, we don't even need a steady partner to get pregnant. If being married was making me unhappy, I wouldn't be, simple as that.

My husband is a plus to my life, always has been. Like many other women, I could be living without him, I just don't want to. It's nice to have someone who loves you, makes you laugh and has your back. My life would be grim without him.

Why do you need to attack happily married women so strongly?

I mean, yes and no. I was single until 23 and was forever "out on the prowl", wearing shedloads of makeup and going out clubbing desperately trying to find "the One". I thought finding a man would fix all my problems and was a guaranteed ticket to forever happiness, where we could sit and watch TV and stir pasta sauce together every night, and not worry about anything else.

I did find "The One", and I love him so much, but he definitely didn't fix all my problems! All the issues I had before remain - anxiety, hating my job, friendship worries - plus some new problems, like the flat always being a mess

In the beginning I was in such a relationship bubble I sort of neglected everything else. Now, 3 years in, I'm making a conscious effort to improve my life - retraining for a new career, going to MeetUp groups, learning to drive, exercising, seeing my friends, etc. My life isn't easier having a partner - it's just a lot more fulfilling knowing you can go home and talk to someone who is on your wavelength and just gets you. Plus, this might sound pathetic but now I don't have to impress anyone or try and find a man, I don't wear makeup or shave my legs.

So love is great, but it's not some sort of snake oil.

I think the issue with Hollywood is that finding love is painted as The End, whereas actually it's just The Beginning of a new stage.

@JaquesHammer and neither are men responsible for the behaviour of women.

I never said that they were responsible for each others' behaviour any more than I said that not wanting a man was misandry. Wanting to remain a single parent did not impact on how I felt about men, collectively or individually, at any time. It was much more to do with my own state of mind and circumstances.

N/C for this because I post on here regularly and don’t want it linking to my other posts. VERY long post/rant so I hope you have ten minutes!

I do agree that the romance that Hollywood has sold us is bollocks for the most part. The lucky few find genuine romantic love, but it is rare......... As many posters have said, when real life, drudgery, money problems, responsibilities (work AND childcare,) etc kick in, the romance soon fades!

I am in my mid 50’s, and like many working class girls before me (and after,) I was sold the idea (back in the 1970’s,) that the most important thing in life was to find a husband. My DH (and many other men, way back when we married in the late 1980’s, AND now) are sold the idea that marriage is a trap, ball and chain, trouble and strife, nagging wife, rolling pin waiting when the husband comes in late from the pub! And so on……. Yet for the women, we were told getting married is an ‘achievement.’

I struggled to find a boyfriend in my teens even though I was not bad looking. I found myself still single at 24, and at the time that was very much frowned on in ‘my world,’ and in my family. ‘Aren’t you courting yet?’ I heard a hundred times between the age of 16 and 24.

All the working class girls who stayed single/never found a husband ended up living with their parents til they were 45-50, then when the parents died, they ended up battling to keep the tenancy of the council house they’d grown up in (and that their parents had the tenancy of.) They often failed, and were shifted into a 1-bed flat, or booted out and expected to rent privately. It’s a hard life for single women, unless you are solvent/well off financially.

So anyway, I met DH at 24 (he was 26,) and we moved in together and got married within 2 years. I was pregnant within 3. I was ‘normal’ now. Married, with my own home, and a kid on the way. Had our daughter at 28.

DH was quite good looking, he had a job, he had all his own teeth, and his own hair. For me, and many like me, that was enough. We had some stuff in common, and had some laughs, but he was quite aggressive and arsey with me sometimes when things weren’t going his way, and he would go silent on me for days… He also had a bit of a temper. Never physically violent, but still made me upset.

His job was always sooooo stressful, and even though I went to work as well for 3 days a week – 25.5 hours, (and hired a childminder for DD,) he always seemed so much more moody and arsey. We had a LOT of massive rows back then.

I took on almost 100% of the childcare and did everything with DD, from taking her to concerts, to taking her to the doctors, opticians, dentist, hospital appointments, the park, the zoo, almost everything. Childcare was ‘my job.’ (As well as my other ‘paid’ job!)

Marriage didn’t take long to turn into drudgery tbh, and all the housework and domestic chores fell on me. DH earned more than me, and often did overtime (and kept all the extra money he earned to himself…) I never saw a penny of the extra money, and struggled financially whilst he spend 1000’s on his MAN hobbies. DD never saw any of it either.

Me and DD spent loads of time together making stuff, and creating free entertainment and hobbies because DH controlled the purse strings and there was very little left for us. I shielded what a control freak he was (with money,) from DD, and just said we had very little money. She did question how he was buying all his hobby stuff and I said he was given it by friends, and he swapped old stuff he didn’t use anymore.

Wasn’t long before I realised I was not in love with DH. Not sure I ever had been.

Anyway, fast forward a few years ... I got a better job with better pay when DD was about 10, and she is now in her mid-20’s and lives with her boyfriend 10 miles from us, and me and her have a fantastic mother-daughter relationship, (always have had,) but she barely speaks to her dad, and never asks him to meet for lunch, or go to the cinema or anything (like she does me.) He is often miffed, but I don’t know why he’s surprised when he put so little effort into raising her.

Always amazes me how men are shocked and annoyed when the kids are so close to their mother, when they left most of the child rearing to the mother!

Me and DH get on OK now (almost 30 years on,) and rub along OK, and still have some laughs together, and he has mellowed a lot since hitting middle age, and his temper has calmed… But OMG he is a chronic moaner now, and a hypochondriac, who never stops moaning about his ailments. A new one every week. Also, he moans about the government, his job, his colleagues, the neighbours, the car, queues in supermarkets. You name it, he bloody moans about it.

Do I love him? Not sure. I am fond of him, and I do care about him, and I look after him when he needs it, (and he looks after me,) and as I said, we do have quite a few laughs, and some stuff in common. But quite honestly, if I won the lottery tomorrow (several million!) I think I would leave him, and spend a few years alone.

I would not necessarily want him entirely out of my life, but i would live alone and do my own thing when I wanted to, and would keep him at arm's length. As many posters here have said, if my DH died tomorrow, (or left,) I would never, ever, EVER be with anyone else again – EVER.

I don’t have the courage to leave and be alone, but if it was forced on me, I would stay alone. And I honestly struggle to fathom why (some) women seem so desperate to find another man (when their relationship breaks down with the previous man!)

I do (sadly) still feel some resentment from when DD was little, and DH did fuckall to help with her, and left me with no money hardly, while he squandered 1000s on his hobbies. He is much more generous now, and we pool our finances, but for the first 11-12 years of our marriage, he was stingy, controlling, passive aggressive, and moody. Makes me wonder why I stayed. Too scared to leave I guess…

He has been OK for the past 15-16 years though, and we have had some great holidays, and great nights out, and he does treat me well (now,) and I would never ever EVER change the fact that we had our daughter. If I could go back in time 26-27 years, I would still have had her!

So even though it has been hard, and I don't think I have ever been in love with him, I do care about him, and have SOME feelings towards him. I do envy people who find deep love with a partner, because I have honestly never had that, and it makes me feel sad that I am going to die without ever having been truly in love.

My marriage has been a challenge, there have been lots of bumps in the road, and one hurdle after another, and I have gone from having a passive aggressive, moody, financially controlling arsey bastard, who did fuck all to help me with the housework and our daughter; to having a whiny old man who tells bad jokes and watches shit TV, who is quite clingy, can't do anything without me with him, and who is puzzled as to why our daughter isn't too interested in talking to him!

All a good laugh though isn't it... life?!

I felt quite sad for you reading that littlegem. I’m sure there are lots in similar boats with similar stories though.

@Crazyhairymary

Thank you.

I think there probably are a lot with a similar tale. Some probably far worse.

I just think to myself that I could have had a far worse life. After all, as I said, my life is pretty OK now.

But yeah, it has not been an easy ride.

I know at least one women who was literally waiting for her husband to die. Luckily she did managed to leave and he made her life hell but she’s come through it. I think it happens a lot more than people admit to

That happened to one of my friends, she was just looking at her husband thinking it would be so much better if he just died. So she woke him up and told him he had to leave and she wanted a divorce etc. He tried to rape her but didn't and she did manage to leave him.
@alittlegem-Its not too late to leave him you know, I know someone who left her husband in her 70 s used the money from the house to travel the world.

I was discussing this with my Mum a few years ago and she mentioned three couples she knew where one of the couple had died. One immediately moved into a much smaller house and bought a dining table and chairs because her DH has taken the dining room for a study. Another sold up and went travelling, the third repaired all the relationships with his children and grandchildren that had been fractured when his dw was alive. I said to my Mum “they all seem to be so much happier Mum” and she looked me straight in the face and said “Yes, I know...”. She and my Dad are just coming up to their fiftieth wedding anniversary and there was something about that “yes I know” that really made me wonder just how successful a marriage they’d really had.

alittlegem. I think your experience is not at all uncommon and your analysis of what women are fed and what men are fed with regards to marriage is spot on.

@alittlegem

I love the realism of what you write. Sorry it's been your life but I really think it is far more usual than the posters who claim their DH is their best friend, love him madly, fancy the pants of each other etc (these people only exist on MN in my experience!). I know better and worse hetero relationships, but I've never yet seen one where I thought the woman looked like as much hard work as the man or that the man was having to compromise on what he wanted daily just to keep things going. We're trained to it. It's frustrating.

And to add I love your attitude and that you treasure your relationship with your daughter. Our children are the real loves of our lives, I sometimes think!

I think love is a mixed bag tbh.

I've been deeply in love several times and I think where I often struggle is that I feel the men I've been with have not been very good at the emotional upkeep required in a relationship, which leads to boredom/resentment. The honeymoon stage is wonderful but lots of men stop doing those exciting things that make women purr. At that stage in a relationship, I've always gotten bored and wondered what am I staying for? To be the only one making an effort to connect/have fun?

I think a lot of men can be very lazy in relationships. I think women tend to be more dynamic and like growth in my experience. I think love, when it works, is the BEST thing in life, but I don't think it is that way for most people. The big part is finding someone emotionally/mentally and sexually compatible and then putting in the effort to love (it's a verb!) When people stop DOING, love fizzles. It's like sitting at a party with a popped balloon.

In my experience, the relationships that have lasted involve women doing a lot of emotional labour and ignoring what annoys them. My brother's gf calls my brother, cuddles him, organises stuff. He just goes along, doesn't initiate. Without her effort, the rel would probably be dead in the water. I like a shared effort, so when a man doesn't bother, I withdraw. I wouldn't carry a relationship alone. I want a partner.

@alittlegem, thank you for your searingly honest post. Sadly, I think your experience does reflect many, especially from that time frame, and you describe many aspects of my first marriage.

That said, I describe my second husband IS wonderful and do believe him to be so. He has his faults, as do I. It's threads like this that confirm, to my mind, that men and women are different and we can moan about the differences or celebrate them and use them to our advantage. I prefer the latter. In recent years women have come to expect more of life, and that's no bad thing, but we mustn't forget that many men and women have had wonderful loving and fulfilling relationships over the centuries, in spite or even maybe because of patriarchy. My mother for instance, would never had had the carefree life, free of pretty much any responsibility that she insisted she wanted. she couldn't wait to be a 'kept woman' and made no bones about it.

I think a good part of what I see is the fact we have this post of almost 300 messages talking about what love is, how relationships work, what they require etc etc, women are always working at these things even if in their own heads or amongst each other.

Something I have realised as I have worked through various initially wonderful and increasingly disappointing relationships is the sheer amount of headspace I have given love and relationships versus the guys, who frankly just don't think about it much of the time, especially once the relationship is established. The perennial "I just don't know what he thinks/feels about me" question we ask ourselves and each other? The idea we have about men's silence and their apparent emotional muteness masking deep wells of feeling for us they don't express because they "don't know how" or "are afraid"? Mostly bollocks ime.

It's like the question "what are you thinking?" It's taken me a very long time to accept that the answer "nothing" really, genuinely means just that and nothing more. We imagine things in them that just aren't there. And sometimes they indulge us by playing the part (elaborate proposals, weddings, valentines day). But day to day, we are just a feature of their lives, not the centre of it they way they often become in ours.

Men, by and large, do not seem to think about their relationships much at all unless there is a clear and present danger of it going down the pan. They assume their right to get what they want out of life, and out of the relationship. They expect women to do that for them and also take care of our own wants and needs, and to write in big block capitals for them the minimum that is required to maintain the status quo rather than taking any time to work it out for themselves - they do NOT spend ages asking their friends or the internet at large about their wives' feelings, thoughts and needs, trying to interpret their actions. That's all us (or almost all). And just that is bloody knackering and unfair. Living both sides of an emotional life to try and maintain the illusion of 'romantic love' because one half simply doesn't see the point in doing so.

choosing to be alone is not something to be proud of . Nor is it something to be ashamed of.

It is a personal decision that can work just as well or better, as being in a two parent family.

Exactly - romantic love is for the most part an illusion so why so many women spend so much emotional energy chasing it is a mystery. Contentment is much more important in life than happiness and a well-lived life is never perfect.

Honestly, more fool women for buying into the myths that big business pedals. Diamond Engagement rings? De Beers wanted them. Big fancy weddings? WAY too stressful, and costly and the only people who benefit really are the vendors. Valentines Day? Mothers Day even? Promoted by big business. Our men and children love us every day if they love us at all, so why need 'proof'? 'What are you thinking' questions? Intrusive unless there is cause for concern.

Namestheyareachangin hit the nail on the head. A truly satisfying relationship doesn't necessarily have both sides of the couple joined at the hip and knowing each other's thoughts every moment of the day. Like it or not, men and women have different roles in society and a family. The 'trick' is for each to find their own space and to like each other for what they are, not for what they ought to be. To many people view a relationship from the point of view of what they can get out of it not what they can bring to it. Someone very wise said, and I can't remember who - it's not a matter of FINDING the right person so much a BEING the right person.

Agree names

We have had to work at at because through history our lives have depended on having a man through whom to access finance and status and security for our children. Now we can access all of the above directly. I wonder if men will up their game or transactional tinder style relationships will become the norm.

Btw I am a single parent to a son and a daughter. My son is very solicitous for my wellbeing - because he loves me. But also because he knows he needs me. He knows he can’t take me for granted. I hope he will be like this in his relationships too.

I get lust, I used to get dependency, but love for another adult is alien to me, I think at times that I'm faulty from my childhood.

If I ever felt I no longer loved DH in a tingly smiley way, I'd be sad. If I was unhappy I'd leave. I'm still crazy in love after twenty years of marriage.

I’m single & feel that ....but I suspect I have never met the right man

I wonder if this is an age thing. I feel that love as a teenager or young adult is much more intense. Then as we grow older it wanes and the scales fall from our eyes.

I come from a background where arranged marriages are normal. There are countless stories of people running away or even taking their own life when they’ve not been able to marry the person they want, because of family disapproval. My dad’s uncle killed himself when the girl he loved was forced to marry someone else (this is nearly 50 years ago).

I remember feeling such intense love for my boyfriend that I would have done anything for him. I was allowed to marry him & love marriages are now much more common in my family. However, I definitely don’t feel that way about DH now. I love him, but it’s conditional.

I know I will be perfectly fine and in fact I’m looking forward to a time when I will be on my own. He does have mental health issues, but I don’t think it’s just because of that. I suppose he doesn’t really bring much to my life because I can do it all myself. I am very very happy in my own company. I don’t really need him, but the DC do right now so that’s why I’m sticking around.

Conversely, my FIL had a minor heart attack last month and my MIL is terrified of losing him. They’ve always had a very traditional set-up and she’s happy looking after him, because that is her role. They had an arranged marriage and saw each other for the first time on their wedding night!

On the other hand, I resent looking after DH and it’s not what I signed up for - I want a career, I want to travel, I want to have fun and see and do everything. My MIL had no such expectations.

So maybe modern life is killing off love and marriage.