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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Homophobia within the Muslim community

430 replies

thankssomuchforthat · 27/03/2019 09:07

Please can we keep this thread calm and good natured as this is a genuine question.
I was genuinely shocked at a spokesperson for the Muslim community on GMB condemning gay people as sinful. Saying being gay is fundamentally wrong. Saying most Muslim people vehemently believe this. Is this true? Or are gay Muslims tolerated within the community? What would happen if a Muslim teenager was gay. Would the family disown them?
Genuine question. I suppose I mix in circles that are tolerant of homosexuality.
Please keep comments nice and friendly.

OP posts:
Gth1234 · 27/03/2019 12:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

hilbobaggins · 27/03/2019 12:29

I personally couldn’t give a fuck that other groups of people don’t like homosexuality or gay marriage or whatever. People can disagree on moral and personal subjects, that’s the point of living in a country like this. They can also discuss those viewpoints, amongst themselves or with others or on TV if they can find a journalist willing to point a camera at them. That’s not against the law as far as I’m aware.

I’d be interested to know what exactly was being taught in that Birmingham school. Does anyone know? I mean I’m sure I’d have a big problem if my 6 year old’s school started teaching him the “gender unicorn” or some such nonsense. Where does the parent’s right to decide what their child understands about relationships and sex begin and end? Why does the state get to decide? (Sorry I’m going off topic but these are interesting questions I’m kind of asking myself!)

CookPassBabtridge · 27/03/2019 12:38

The gay muslims I know do have to hide it from their families.

TheQueef · 27/03/2019 12:50

Is Moslem an offensive spelling of Muslim or just an alternative?

Singlenotsingle · 27/03/2019 12:54

I thought it was just an alternative spelling but someone's taken exception!

MachinicianMagician · 27/03/2019 12:59

I thought Moslem was just a more archaic version. It actually sounds closer to how many of us describe ourselves (in my language it would sound like Mosalmon).

drspouse · 27/03/2019 13:07

It was only about 10 years ago that Anne Atkins (conservative Christian commentator) was saying "it's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" on Thought for the Day, IIRC.

Nursejackie1 · 27/03/2019 13:21

The no outsiders programme teaches children in an age appropriate way that other formulas of families exist than the traditional mom dad and kids. For example they will be read to and discuss story book which have families for example with 2 dads or 2 moms. No mention of sex. It normalises what is normal and part of our society...and will help to eradicate bullying and confusion for children who may face such issues growing up.
If anybody has a problem with this then they are homophobic. What is so outrageous about children becoming familiar with the types of families that they live amongst?
And I have heard so much tripe about kids being brainwashed...can somebody please explain this to me because I promise you that if your kid is gay they are gay and cannot be turned into something they are not just by understanding others. Just like those being forced to supress their sexual desires as grown ups due to otherwise being disowned does not turn them straight just creates a living hell for those unable to be free. The lessons are essential.

Ginnymweasley · 27/03/2019 13:24

I have a Muslim friend who is a primary school teacher. She doesn't see an issue with the lessons at all and doesn't agree with the protests. She did convert to Islam as an adult though so this may have changed her view. I imagine like with any other religion there will be many different opinions some less tolerant than others.

TheQueef · 27/03/2019 13:27

I too thought Moslem was just the older spelling.

beeny · 27/03/2019 13:30

I am muslim and my sister is a muslim academic ( a regular contributor on Thought for the day) She has clearly said to me there is nothing about it being forbidden. Lots of people will begin quoting but we can all pick out texts from scripture that condemns. Equally there is a lot of scripture which commmands respct for everyone and compassion.

The MCB do not speak for all muslims , the faith is not like Catholicism where the Pope is final authority .

Faffandahalf · 27/03/2019 13:34

Muslim here.
Homosexuality is not accepted in Islam as a valid lifestyle like most religions.
However the majority of us have a tolerant and accepting attitude. We don’t preach to others and we don’t protest against gay rights.
If my son or daughter were gay I wouldn’t disown them or make them go to conversion therapy but I would be sad because I believe in the religious teachings and so when the faith says it’s not allowed I accept that.
However I love my children and would be part of their lives and they would be part of mine gay or not.

NicksWife08 · 27/03/2019 13:37

I have a fairly famous Muslim journalist in my family. To the younger generations in our family its very obvious and well known that he is gay, to the older members he can't admit this and lives a single life. It's so sad to see.
My father in law is extremely homophobic.
I'm not a Muslim but married into a Muslim family.

Original poster
thankssomuchforthat · 27/03/2019 13:40

Thanks for everyone sharing their different viewpoints, its been truly fascinating x

OP posts:
beeny · 27/03/2019 13:41

The Quran does not say homosexuality is forbidden. It talks about Sodom and Gomorrah but falls short of saying it is forbidden.

M4J4 · 27/03/2019 13:41

Moslem is offensive, because the word is Muslim, pronounced with a u, not o. It's like calling Christians 'Chrustians' or Jews 'Jaws'

M4J4 · 27/03/2019 13:42

OP, if you're genuinely interested and your intention is not to be incendiary, then this thread might be useful

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/3293323-Im-a-Muslim-ask-me-anything

Original poster
thankssomuchforthat · 27/03/2019 13:47

So in mosques that believe that homosexuality is a choice or that gay people have the power to change their sexuality. Or do they believe that gay people should be gay, but not practice gay sex? Genuine question.

OP posts:
Original poster
thankssomuchforthat · 27/03/2019 13:48

Sorry that was posted by mistake before proofreading it!

OP posts:
Mammajay · 27/03/2019 13:49

Hilbo hurrah!!!

Original poster
thankssomuchforthat · 27/03/2019 13:50

Should have said:
So in mosques do they believe that homosexuality is a choice/ that gay people have the power to change their sexuality or do they believe that gay people can not change being gay, but should not practice gay sex? Genuine question.

OP posts:
Original poster
thankssomuchforthat · 27/03/2019 13:52

M4J4: absolute no incendiary motives, its been nice hearing all viewpoints without it dissolving into fighting, sarcasm, etc. Thanks Ill have a look at that.

OP posts:
TeacupDrama · 27/03/2019 14:30

I can't speak for all obviously as all Christians Muslims and Jews are not thinking exactly the same

Generally the theological opinion would be that it is not sexual orientation that is the sin but acting on this outside of marriage (which in all three religions is described as a man and a woman) so following this through whether homosexual or heterosexual in orientation celibacy is required before marriage, if you do not get married you remain celibate as they would also consider adultery (sex when married to someone else) or fornication ( sex before marriage) as sins too
so to answer @thankssomuchforthat questions generally the answer would be not practise gay sex and stay celibate
Celibacy was traditionally valued as a spiritual choice in Christianity especially Catholicism though also in Protestant circles; there is much less of a tradition within both Judaism and Islam for unmarried people and certainly it has never been considered desirable for Rabbi or Imans to be celibate but rather to have families

TooTrueToBeGood · 27/03/2019 14:44

I would say it's more cultural than religious. Many religions see homosexuality as a sin. However, people pick and choose the elements of their religion they want and discard the ones they don't. In many developing countries religion has a much stronger influence than it does in the west so people who either live in a developing country, or who are fairly recent emigrants from a developing country, are more likely to hold (or pretend to hold) fundamental religious views.

As with so many things in life, judge the individual not the religion, skin tone or nationality. Bear in mind that it wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was a criminal offence in the UK so we really are not that progressive.

MrPan · 27/03/2019 15:13

I am a Muslim convert and find that homosexuality is very much as expressed as above by many. That no one person speaks for all 1.3bn (or so) Muslim people across the world.
It's also very bad form to assess someone else's goodness or badness as a Muslim person - that's Allah/God's task.
I don't recall the section of the Quran which specifically singles out homosexuality (is there one?) but folks who I mix with are untroubled by this. Often it IS a cultural issue rather than a 'religious' issue (as a LOT of things are) and like many things generational change will also change attitudes overall.