Homophobia within the Muslim community

[thankssomuchforthat]

Please can we keep this thread calm and good natured as this is a genuine question.
I was genuinely shocked at a spokesperson for the Muslim community on GMB condemning gay people as sinful. Saying being gay is fundamentally wrong. Saying most Muslim people vehemently believe this. Is this true? Or are gay Muslims tolerated within the community? What would happen if a Muslim teenager was gay. Would the family disown them?
Genuine question. I suppose I mix in circles that are tolerant of homosexuality.
Please keep comments nice and friendly.

I know Claire,

My exH is Muslim and in the 90’s I visited his country of birth to meet his family who lived there. His brother is gay which exH told me about while I was there and I asked why he had a wife and children and he said it’s just how it is and the family laugh it off as him being “different”.

I also met a childhood friend of his who was also gay, but recently married with a baby on the way. He chose to work abroad, spending little time with his wife and having male partners in the country where he worked. His wife had no idea.

ExH had no problem with people who were gay. It’s more society gossip about “So and so isn’t married yet” and the fear of how others will view them as a family and if that would affect their daughters getting married.

It was brushed under the carpet back then and I hope attitudes have changed within families so young men and women can live a life that isn’t torture.

There fixated on Muslims because there was a protest by the Muslim community in Birmingham because of it Being taught in a school.
They interview on gb he was nothing but homophobic an disgusting. I also come from a culture that doesn’t accept gay people. Suicide and mental health is also high in my community. I also think that type of thinking has no place in this country, it had come a long way since the time where gay people had to hide away and pretend to be straight. I do agree primary school age is too young but not against it being taught in secondary schools.

I also don’t see how a person of certain cultures/religion expect their attitudes and beliefs to be tolerated when they can’t tolerate others either.

I’d never bring my children up in any country where they risked too much exposure to fundamentalism eg Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or in the Bible Belt of the USA - can’t imagine why somebody wanting their kids exclusively exposed to fundamentalist branches of Islam would want to bring their kids up in a liberal western democracy.

The guardian article linked by Childrenofthestones is interesting. Here's a quote:

However, when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed. Almost half (47%) said they did not agree that it was acceptable for a gay person to become a teacher, compared with 14% of the general population.

I am atheist and honestly believe that most religions are pretty hateful and prejudiced against homosexuality, women (I could go on and on and on). But it is perhaps the outspoken, trying to ban education, aspect of this issue which merits discussion.

BFG of course I’ve read the Koran. I’m sorry for the experience you and your family went through and can see it had a lasting negative effect.
I stand by why I said, it is not vile or hate filled, to me its beautiful. Each to their own. Sending you peace.

I accept to you your religion is beautiful.

But what most Imans preach, sharia law as practised by sharia courts in Britain, is anything but beautiful.

Primary is not too young. Homophobic language occurs in primary schools which feed socondaries. The program is much needed.

My father is from a muslim country and we lived there for some years when I was young. What is interesting is that young men from that country would routinely 'sleep with' gay male tourists, but the young men did not consider themselves gay. They think that you're only gay if you're the one receiving, so to speak. Very odd. They would all have banished any child of their own who admitted to being gay, i.e., a man falling in love with another man, or a woman falling in love with another woman, but it was ok to shag tourists, presumably for some kind of financial gain.

It has its roots in history, if any of you have ever seen the film 300 Spartans - while this is not the country I'm talking about, it's similar.

MashedSpud
and that is how society used to be in the UK - everything hiddden away. Thankfully we have evolved enough to be able to recognise that tolerance and respect for diffference is the only way a civilised democracy can function - and exactly why our government needs to stand up to fundamentalists trying to take education back to the dark days of intolerance.

I wonder just how many have actually read the books that are under discussion?

And no Missy you don’t get to squeal Islamophobia when muslims preaching homophobia are called out. Nobody is saying Islam needs to be cut from the curriculum( in great contrast to those calling for LGBT education to be pulled). They are saying homophobia has no place in British society, it doesn’t.

Unfortunately those parents in Birmingham are managing to make a while religion look like homophobic bigots who object to the very idea of gay people existing at all

Christianity and Judaism both have a long history of homophobia too. The difference is twofold: first, most of them in the West have moved with the times, including pretty senior leadership, at least of the C of E (not so in Africa) and secondly, any homophobia from Christians will be instantly denounced jn the west, whereas people are much more sensitive about censoring Muslims here.

Another difficulty is that there isn’t a central Islamic authority to reform, unlike eg C of E

Nordic- I’m hardly “squealing” about it

Are there any British openly gay imams?

You are joking? No chance.

Apparently there is one in OZ counselling on line

Just looked him up. BBC article says he is unable to travel due to security concerns so operates online.

I'm a practising Muslim and also do a lot of work promoting equality which includes LGBTQ+ rights. My faith does see the homosexual act (two men undertaking intercourse) as prohibited. As do most if not all monotheistic faiths. We believe we cannot change the word of God (as we believe it to be) just because of a change in societal norms or values.

However the three points Muslim's often miss in my opinion (especially those with entrenched cultural views which they cannot always differentiate from Islamic rulings) is firstly, although homosexual intercourse is not permitted, neither is interest payments on a house, intercourse of any sort outside of marriage, killing women and children during war, parking outside a mosque carelessly that might impact adversely on residents, watching porn, drinking alcohol, multi level marketing schemes, grooming girls, claiming benefits with no entitlement and even talking in a foreign language in a group in a way that intentionally excludes a third party etc etc. There is (with one exception, shirk) no hierarchy of 'sin' if you will ... so it is wrong of Muslim's to pinpoint one aspect and overlook the others.

Secondly, as mentioned, is it embedded in our faith to dislike the act not the person and thirdly, there is no complusion in religion; you cannot Islamically force your faith on others. We are expected to show kindness to others, whether they hold the same views as us or otherwise. Good character means we don't act in a way that might be hurtful. So I interprete that to mean my job as a Muslim is to promote the views of all in society especially those who are discriminated against.

wow, this thread is making me very glad I'm not religious.

Dislike the act but not the person.
Just the same as Christians hate the sin but love the sinner.
Hardly tolerance.

Frankly religions have always behind the curve when it comes to sexual morality. They have not lead the way with acceptance and compassion but been led kicking and screaming into the 21st century. If western churches have learnt to embrace homosexuality its because their power has been depleted. In other sects of Christianity and other religions and societies they still have flocks and influence over them.

There is still a huge amount of homophobia in this country even though laws would suggest otherwise. No reason to be smug because 5 minutes ago we legalised sex between 16 year old boys and gay marriage. How other sects and religions treat homosexuality will probably change in time.

As a Christian country we allow gay marriage, therefore it’s ridiculous to say Christians are just as intolerant as Muslims about gays. Muslims that throw gays off the tallest buildings are beyond barbaric, there’s no comparison with Christians regarding homosexuality.

Great post blue and in Christianity sex outside of marriage is frowned upon between heterosexuals but not easy to adhere to. Religions get very hung up about sexual sin