Brexit

[Shitty]

New user first post
Hi everyone
Am I alone I thinking that we had a vote to leave the European union and the majority said leave ?
So can anyone tell me why those idiots in parliament who are there to to serve us think its ok to ignore the mandate given to them by the British people and are doing anything to reverse the decision what happens it we have an election and they don't like the outcome of that do have another until they are happy???. We voted out and there wasn't any mention of a deal on the voting sheet . Out means out i m afraid as voted for so get on with it so we can move forward.

Out means out
Excellent, that's the Customs problems at Dover sorted then

If we are a democracy then votes have to count for something

They do count for something. The general 'will of the people' (as it was in June 2016) was that we should leave the EU under the circumstances which they were promised would prevail if that was their wish ('easiest trade deal in history', continuing to trade easily with the Single Market etc).

The previous government promised that they would act on the 'will of the people', even though the referendum was legally only advisory.

This government was elected on the premise that they would also observe the results of the advisory referendum and leave the EU. Election manifesto promises aren't legally binding though, they're a 'promise' from the party that if elected they intend to do X, Y and Z. They're not bound to those promises at all. Even if they do their very best to make what they've promised happen there's no guarantee that they can make it happen (e.g. LibDems and tuition fees). The Government are only bound politically to their manifesto commitments - we almost expect them to be lying to start with and we're hardly surprised if they fail anyway are we?

There's certainly nothing about a manifesto commitment which legally binds the Government (or any successor) to commit an act which they've come to believe would be bad for the country.

Mamma jay are you playing remainer bingo or do you have any of your own thoughts on Brexit

I don’t usually argue online but...mrsjoyful? Where are the unpleasant responses? The OP asked for opinions, they got them. I didn’t and it doesn’t seem like anyone here is calling anyone stupid, or xenophobic or anything else. The OP called politicians idiots in the original post. Does it make you feel better to post and retreat like this - I won’t engage because I know no-one will listen - we are listening and responding. No-one is engaging with anything we say.

The referendum was advisory, the result was pretty marginal (48/52), and the information that people based their voting decisions on was inaccurate.

I'm not entirely sure that some people on here have a real handle on the meaning of 'democracy'. It's not as simple as 'get a vote. change stuff.' Because that 'change stuff' has to also include changing one's mind.

"Interesting that you would choose to join a parenting site to post about Brexit, isn't it?"

Not really, plenty of threads on here about Brexit. No one seems to have an issue with them. Maybe it's because they're from remainers and this one has been posted by a leaver.

To the OP, you're not alone.

To be honest the democracy line of defence used by some leave voters on here is learned by rote and thrown out as an ad hominem attack on others ( "You don't respect democracy").

Some of the leave campaign have consistently proven they are against British democracy and really would prefer to use this referendum the way dictators of the past have done.

Its particularly interesting the way Cameron's pledge to carry out the result of the referendum is held as sacrosanct, but the pledge by the leave campaign that there would be a deal negotiated before we leave is not ( nor any other leave promise). Whilst Cameron was prime minister he did not have the power to make that promise, and once no longer PM he can't be held accountable so its no longer valid.

But then a coherent line of argument has not been the strong point of the campaigners.

I’m with hostess trolley and as many others have said the referendum was advisory .

Op, don’t waste your time arguing this topic on Mumsnet. It’s a lefty leaning, London centric site with posters who are apparently better educated and informed than the rest of us and whose opinions are the only ones that should count 🙄

It’s a lefty leaning,

I’ve never in my life voted Labour.

New user eh? Are you always so confrontational on introduction? You sound as if you're very familiar with this type of forum.

The whole point of having a Parliament is that they CAN and SHOULD only vote through in the best of conscience what is right and good for the Country. They should very rightly be stopping the Country launching itself off an economic cliff. But I’m getting the point of thinking we should just do Brexit with the proviso that anyone who voted leave should go to the back of the queue for nhs treatment, benefits and jobs. Oh and Boris, JRM & Gove should in some way be prosecuted for their lies and have to hand over their millions to the nhs.

@ItsAllGone19 - why jump in with the instant personal insults?

“Op, don’t waste your time arguing this topic on Mumsnet. It’s a lefty leaning, London centric site with posters who are apparently better educated and informed than the rest of us and whose opinions are the only ones that should count 🙄”

....Why not state your opinion instead of saying this? No-one is saying their opinion is better than yours or the OPs. We are just giving our opinions in response to a question. You are free to do the same. Seriously, if we don’t actually all behave as if we could have a discussion we’ll never be able to have one. What is your opinion? What do you want to say? How would you like us to respond? Why does it matter where we live? (Not in London by the way). Why do you sound so angry? We are leaving the European Union. I don’t know want to. You do. You should be happy. I have a right to say I’m not happy about it. You can ignore me if you want, but I don’t understand what you’re angry about. What are you angry about? I hope we can continue to live in a society where people’s right to say what they think and act as they choose is respected and protected. I think we’re entering a period in history where we might have to defend that. I will defend your right to your opinion even if I disagree with it. If that’s left leaning, and you don’t like it, so be it.

@Cabbagehippy
Because it’s the usual way these discussions go.Certain remainders think they are so highly educated and right on pc that any other ideas but their own are shouted down as being thick and racist.

Op, don’t waste your time arguing this topic on Mumsnet. It’s a lefty leaning, London centric site with posters who are apparently better educated and informed than the rest of us and whose opinions are the only ones that should count

And yet, here you are.

You do know that lefty leaning isn't an actual insult, right?

Whether you are a leaver, or a remainer, triggering article 50, without discussing what the outcome of leaving the EU would be, and sorting a deal before leaving, was fucking batshit.

I voted remain, but accept that the leave vote won, and I respect that result, and know that not all leavers are 'thick racist gammon,' but the way it has been handled is monstrously bad.

I can't see any way forward now, other than to have a new referendum. I think some people on both sides were a bit ignorant of the facts, and fed lies and propaganda in 2016, and I believe everyone now is much more informed

There are good and bad on both sides. Some remainers have been vile; horrible about their own family, calling them bigoted and thick and saying they will be dead soon anyway, and they have dementia and that's why they voted leave, and calling all leavers uneducated racist knuckle-dragging gammon.

And some leavers voted for leave because of forriners and to 'get our cuntrree back' (and for little other reason!) and yeah some are bigoted and small minded. On the whole though, many people on both sides have good and bad.

As I said; many people on both sides didn't know much about the EU, or what would happen when we leave, and I feel many people are much more informed now. And for this reason I strongly believe we should have another referendum. If LEAVE wins again, then we just come out of the EU immediately.

I doubt 'leave' will win though.

By the way, I agree that there have been some very nasty posts on this forum on a few brexit threads, from a few remainers... Most are fine, but there have been some cruel and cutting comments from a few. And as has been said, the brexit threads often go the same way, with a few very obsessive remainers turning on the leavers and calling them thick bigoted uneducated pigs ... and it's really unpleasant to see. And as I said, I voted to remain!

We all know what remain means. Nobody has ever known what leave means. Is it:

1. In or out of the single market and custom union?
2. Norway model?
3. WTO rules?
4. Canada plus?

Not to mention many of the desires of leave voters aren’t mutually compatible. Leave does not just mean ‘leave’.

I’m still crossing my fingers for revoke!

We all know what remain means
BS!!!!
Sorry but the EU is evolving and changing- list me the next 3 countries to join, tell me how PESCO will operate is conjunction with NATO....you cant! That is why so many of the older generation voted Leave, because they have seen the EU project changing from its original intent.

We voted out and there wasn't any mention of a deal on the voting sheet

You read the published leave/remain campaign literature before voting didn't you?
It's not printed on the voting slip.
HTH.

Certain remainders

See

This is the important bit

If you have a pop at everyone who voted for remain because someone was snotty on another thread then you are just the same as them

OnlyFoolsnMothers
list me the next 3 countries to join
Montenegro, Kosovo, north Macedonia
tell me how PESCO will operate is conjunction with NATO....
Unless Corbyn has his way, we are staying in NATO so will influence that
EU project changing from its original intent
Its original intent was to do with coal, so what is the problem of taking Climate change on board?

The UK has had utterly rubbish MEPs who have not stood up for it in Brussels
.... the UK MEP paid to represent our fishermen did not bother to go to 45 of the 47 meetings of that committee
blame him for the mess of the CFP for the UK

Because GFA.
A grown up looks at grown up things like legal responsibilities. GFA is one of the legal responsibilities.