Brexit

[Shitty]

New user first post
Hi everyone
Am I alone I thinking that we had a vote to leave the European union and the majority said leave ?
So can anyone tell me why those idiots in parliament who are there to to serve us think its ok to ignore the mandate given to them by the British people and are doing anything to reverse the decision what happens it we have an election and they don't like the outcome of that do have another until they are happy???. We voted out and there wasn't any mention of a deal on the voting sheet . Out means out i m afraid as voted for so get on with it so we can move forward.

If we are a democracy then votes have to count for something

Have you been following the news? The government has been trying to follow your vote. But it has failed because it has inherent problems that have not been resolved.

No one has told you you voted wrongly, we are trying to tell you that the whole thing is a disaster from beginning to the end.

The only regret i have is that it turns out no one knew what to do. There was 2 years of prep to be done but it was all so focussed on a deal. This ended up with uncertainty which has made companies panic as they dont know what their trade costs or paperwork will be. The DUP having to be called in for support. Had we spent 2 years sorting out being independent. Becoming more self sufficient and making a fair deal for Ireland and England Brexit wouldnt be what it is. Im a leaver but would not vote if there was another referendum. I would never vote remain but leave has been a complete waste of money and time.

If we are a democracy then votes have to count for something
They do. Your vote, and those of your fellow constituents, elected your MP.
Who is your MP, and were they the candidate you voted for in 2017?

Democracy is not having just one final vote then declaring it ‘the will of the people’. The French tried that and it didn’t work out too well...

I would be genuinely interested to know when this idea of our democracy became part of the public discourse. When did democracy stop being a continual conversation with checks and balances and competing forms of power and decision making?

OP as I’m sure you well know, the whole thing has been a colossal mess from start to finish and no one in the Tory party (or parliament really) has the balls to admit it and lead us out of the chaos.

The UK has humiliated itself on the world stage and it’ll take a long time to recover from that no matter what happens next.

Interesting that you would choose to join a parenting site to post about Brexit, isn't it?

Please tell us, as you're clearly a leaver, what you thought you were voting for? And why.

We're all ears.

Even MPs are misusing the idea of 'democracy'. It's propaganda of course, but scary that once 'democracy' starts being used this way it starts to mean something different.

Plus we are a representative democracy not a direct democracy....

just because you think they have voted wrongly doesn't make you right

It's not about voting "wrong", its about all the unresolved issues that need sorting before anything can happen.

For example, the Northern Ireland border - do you genuinely not care what happens to it? If you don't care, if your view is "Brexit is more important than the NI border, so actually no, I don't care" then that's fine (I'd disagree with you strongly, but its an opinion). But if you do care, what do you propose is done if your demand to "just leave" is followed? And even if you don't personally care, you must appreciate that an awful lot of people do (including some leave supporters, which is why some did not back May's deal) - should they all be ignored?

If all your friends voted to jump off a cliff, would you?

Clearly 'yes' in this case

I have a sense of pro-Brexit trolling...like the stuff that was all over this place like a rash before the referendum...I'm sure I don't need to name names but they were a group of allegedly unconnected, very passionate and prolific posters, who seemed almost regimented in their committment to employment log-on hours and, like magic, disappeared after the ref. I've noticed this type of poster popping up on on another forum this morning too. #BrexitIsACrimeScene

Passionate posters who can't spell "I'm" and can spell and use "mandate" appropriately...

OP, the country and Parliament have been newly-educated over the past 2 and a half years about what leaving the EU means, and with that knowledge there is a clear majority of people who don't want to be poorer and have more limited life chances than under the current arrangements.
Clearly the Leave leaders duped a whole swathe of voters with impossible 'dreams' in order to achieve a low tax/low spend economy. They are angry it looks like they may be thwarted.

Brexit was never about sovereignty. It was about money, and how a small group of people could become more enriched at the cost of the main population.

Democracy was never a consideration for them.

This kind of pro-Brexit trolling is not going to work in their favour. It just confirms the stereotype.

Democracy isn’t a finite process that ends at the ballot box of an advisory referendum.

It is an ever-evolving process. You can’t break democracy with more democracy.

Because there has been no strong leadership from May. She has allowed people to think if they strop enough they can override the will of the people.

What sort of people become anc survive being MPs? Ambitious people, people who play the game to serve their own ambitions. This climate has undoubtedly enabled that kind of behaviour to be on show in the commons. Just look at the eurosceptcism of Corbyn give way to prostituting his beliefs to try and climb closer to number 10.

The trouble is somewhere along the way remain has managed to badge itself as the moral highground largely through social media (waves at the ones on mumsnet). The cult of pseudo liberalism has ensured people with very little understanding of the issues associated with the EU cling to the safety and stability of what they know whilst at the same time enabling virtue signalling and also ensuring that they can also claim to be intellectually supierior (since when has it become socially acceptable to walk round making generalised disparaging comments about groups of strangers like has happened over the past two years).

Brexit is not really about Brexit. The poor management has left a political black hole and politicians who would probably sell their own mother to progress are keen to fill it.

Continued membership of the EU is in no way related to what it is now. The EU is a very dynamic entity. It will look very different in 10 years to what it does now. It has a stated objective of an “ever closer union”. What this actually means only time will tell. But at the moment it is guesswork.

What is certain that the UK with its very different legal system, social, cultural, economic and historical identity will find increasing compromises are needed to stay in line with the progress of the ever closer and growing union.

Whether you feel these compromises are worth being tied to the economics of a wide variety of economies (the Japanese EU auto treaty being one of the most recent example), is up to you. But don’t pretend you are somehow superior because you lump yourself in with the remain vote because they have done a better marketing campaign.

OP I don't agree with you and your post sounds suspiciously like shit-stirring, a no-deal Brexit would be a disaster for this country, anyone with any common sense who makes a choice then realises that there are consequences that weren't considered or even talked about clearly at the time knows that they should then reconsider their choices. The 'I decided it' so it has to happen inflexibility that you suggest would be the sign of poor judgement, or what my gran would have called 'Cutting off your nose to spite your face'.

The problem with the referendum is that it made a huge, complicated and mutually beneficial relationship a binary choice and then weaponised the people that Westminster have ignored.

It's not as simple as having a vote for going to one pub or another, or who gets the deciding vote in a takeaway. This is a massive, massive problem and the government have spent the last 2 years ignoring everything else to the point that brexit is now the only thing that will be keeping some going.

I don't disagree that the vote was in favour of leave, and had our elected representatives actually acted in the interests of the country I do believe that those who voted remain would have been sad but fallen in behind a deal that respected the referendum result and didn't destroy the country.

It's so tiring to keep seeing the same argument, you wanted change, your vote on this one occasion should be respected and listened to, but when it comes to the day to day so many of the "I'd never voted before" people have not exercised that right since. And so Westminster continues to ignore them, and will continue to do so because they have their own agenda and frankly it's ridiculous that anyone would think the tories are acting in their interests.

A no deal brexit was never offered by leave, it was always "we will get the same as we have now without paying for it" which is ludicrous and surely must be obviously seen as a lie? With 17.4 million votes for a type of brexit, it's ludicrous to suggest that every single one of those voters wanted brexit at any cost; be that jobs, lives, keeping homes etc. This will not end austerity, it will simply mandate the tories to squeeze that much harder on the people that are already struggling. When did we become a nation of I'm alright jacks? When did you decide that you were happy for people to die through lack of medicine? for cancer treatment advances to slow down? for people already in poverty to starve because they already can't afford food despite working 2 jobs?

Frankly, the no dealers attitudes are abhorrent, take a step back, stop and think about the implications of any of these awful consequences and question whether if you had been diagnosed with cancer would you want treatment? Where does that treatment come from, and who adminsters it? You think things can't get any worse because it's already difficult, you should know better - when you're in the gutters, it's still a fall to the sewers

The problem with emotive subjects like cancer treatments, is that this could all have been sorted within the first few weeks if both sides had been prepared to be reasonable, but instead they have been used as bargaining points. In actual fact nothing that happens now could not have been replicated, the only thing that has stopped this has been politicians

OP
You are not alone. There are lots of us but we've given up putting our heads over the parapet because of the onslaught of (at the very least) unpleasant responses. Neither are we all deluded, naive, uneducated, xenophobic idiots (who, it is frequently assumed, are frightened of going abroad and mingling with non-British people)but few people seem able to entertain that idea. I have no more to say as no-one will listen, particularly on MumsNet.

OP if you are new it might help to have a look round the site and the different forums and get a feel for what's going on.

The referendum was advisory. Also farage said on the night the votes were being counted that if the vote was close, it wouldn't be valid. Such an important issue should have required a bigger margin. Also the Russians were manipulating the media.

Since when did "democracy" mean that you vote for something based on flimsy information and no you can't change your fucking mind now you know more, STFU and lump it even though life for most people will take a deeply unpleasant downtown after the event you voted for.

Sounds more like an authoritarian regime to me.