DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

@kennehora I do not think any body should be less favoured than by anyone else, but at what point do you limit the amount of people immigrating here? or do you just say forget it make the whole world free movement, let people live where ever they want, no passports, no visas e.t.c. I am pritty sure even you would not be happy then when you can not access basic services ever. If we had the infrastructure to cope with it I would not mind but we don't, we are technically a small island in the world and can not handle mass immigration.
As for best interests, one example is that you have currently got a school in the Midlands where the majority of foreign parents are protesting about a part of the curriculum being taught to their children because it does not fit in with their Religious beliefs, I am sorry but if you are being taught in a public school in England, you will be taught what is on the English curriculum as set by the Government. If your not happy at what is being taught because of your beliefs go else where. That is just one example of best interests for the country and looking after it's heritage, we allow alot of free will and speach here which is what makes us Great.

Well said @Menarefrommarsitwouldseem

got a school in the Midlands where the majority of foreign parents are protesting

These parents are British.

I don't agree with them, the same way I don't agree with 17 million people who voted leave.

All of those people are British though. Not 'foreign'.

Part of the problem is that Remainers simply proved to be inadequate to the task of explainng why we should stay, or too patronising, too something and not enough something else anyway. I say this as a natural remainer (self-serving as I have many relatives living in Europe though can't affor to visit them), and am also remain for many other reasons, none of which were enough to persuade anyone I know to vote remain. I am surrounded by lovely, educated, level-headed Brexiteers who are not ignorant, stupid or racist.

I would hazard a guess that the reason your DH is reluctant to articulate his views is as follows: Leavers don't like remainers much, but your DH doesn't want to say that, therefore leading you to think he's all the worst names in the world. This cycle makes leavers dislike remainers even more. No one likes to be called names especially unfounded ridiculous names.

I could bore with reasons I've heard batted around for remain.

I don't care. I accept a goodly proportion of remain voters do so for personal gain, they work for the EU machine. They vote without thought or reason because their friends and family do.
They know nothing of the EU but vote out of fear of the unknown, or they know of nothing else.
Or simply get dates and facts mixed up.
Or think they can't go on holidays anymore!

They can't ever live or work in the EU.
There will be just as many poorly informed people on both sides.

But what we do not have on the EU side is a functional , successful project. The EU itself is in utter turmoil!

LateEaster
The EU itself is in utter turmoil!
Could you elaborate?

*@BoneyBackJefferson *

Its interesting the verbal gymnastics some are performing to stay just on the right side of a deleted post.

By "some" do you mean me? If so I literally have no idea what you are talking about, neither the verbal gymnastics (I think I've been very straight and upfront with you) nor the deleted post.

Blibbyblobby

Why would you think that I meant you?

As far as I am aware we were talking about a different poster, or posters.

@Boney

You said it in a reply to me so I thought it was something I’d said. Glad to hear it isn’t. I don’t want to be goady so I’d hate to inadvertently come over that way.

Plurabelle, thanks for your post, I'm sorry that I said you were being goady, you're clearly not.

I agree, there was not enough information to make a viable decision to Leave; the only real option then being to Remain as that's the status quo. I suspect that many people voted Remain for that reason, not that they did indepth research but, as I posted previously, 'better the devil you know'. Just as valid but not educated or displaying particular intellect either. It just happened to be the 'right' decision.

I don't believe that most Leave voters are racists or that they would have voted the way they did if the full facts would have been openly and honestly presented. Why would they? It would be like hitting yourself in the head with a bat and then complaining of a headache.

Our politicians are woeful and their conduct throughout has been a disgrace. There should be no movement without a plan and there was no business for there to be a Referendum without the pros and cons being clearly outlined for both 'sides'.

I'm sorry that we don't have a legal system that is graceful and powerful enough to swoop up all those politicians and make them accountable for their idiocy.

If I were Theresa May I'd take advantage of my position, revoke A50 and sweep myself out of politics. She'd be a heroine. In the absence of that or any reprieve, we'd better start working together as best we can because this divisiveness is ugly and pointless.

In the absence of that or any reprieve, we'd better start working together as best we can because this divisiveness is ugly and pointless.

Agreed. Rule to live by- if your (universal you) post to a social media political discussion consists of calling someone else 'gammon' or 'snowflake', you shouldn't be making it. It contributes nothing.

The English Civil War was a tragic time in UK history and we should not be re-enacting it online in the 21st century.

How many of the almost 17 million who voted Remain know what the future of the EU will bring? Most are voting on what the EU is now, not what it may become.

How many know that Majority Voting was included as part of the Lisbon Treaty and will come in in 2020 for example? That the EU will be responsible for EU wide Taxation by 2024 for VAT, Corporation Tax , Green Taxes and EU project taxes. States will no longer have a veto and these will be set by the EU council. Ireland for example is one country already worried by this due to their lower lower corporation tax rates.
The same rules will also be brought in for Foreign policy and Security.
Our Tax, Foreign and Security policy will be decided by the EU council on a 55% majority. This is already in the Treaty ready to be finalised.

I'm not saying Remain or Leave is better, but voters have their own reasons for voting either way and 95% of the population didn't know what they were voting for on either side.

YANBU

Luckily, my DH and I voted the same way (to remain) but we're both utterly fed up of all the Brexit bollocks on the news and in the papers

Of the few of my friends/acquaintances who I know voted to leave, a couple have tried to explain and rationalise their reasons for how they voted.

But it all seems to come down to "making Britain great again" whatever the fuck that actually entails, I'd be keen to know

aaeg you read the DM version of the Lisbon Treaty, didn't you?

Even were it true, you assume the whole EU project is hewn in stone, like Mt Rushmore, permanent, immovable, impervious to the twists and turns of events.

And that we have/ had unique opt outs.

But, never make a decision on painting your walls pale green in case you change your mind down the track!

And I strongly object to the concept that I, as a Remainer, didn't know what I was voting for.

I voted for a known, the status quo. I voted to stay in an imperfect but functional institution, one that has made us as rich as we've ever been, allows free and easy trade, free movement ( with restrictions our government chose to ignore)- and, has brought peace, for the longest time in European history.

Oh, and kept a lid on the nasty, fetid underbelly Brexit has unleashed.

I voted for a known, the status quo.
Really?

@Miljah -The DM put down. Very good. Glad you have kept a lid on the fetid underbelly.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0115/1023250-european-commission-tax/

ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/decision-making-eu-tax-policy_en

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-5683_en.htm

The whole idea of Majority voting is to remove the opt outs. It may happen it may not. But it is on the EU agenda.

aaeg22

That was the reasoning behind DH's vote to leave.

He is still of the opinion that we should have had a ref on the Lisbon Treaty.

I think a GE is the most likely outcome now.

If Blair hadn't renaged on his promise to hold a Referendum on this clarrise we would not be where we are now.

Brexit will be front page news for years and years and years.
It will distract the UK govt from giving a shit about anything else.
Great.

I come from a farming family, although I'm not a farmer myself... All the farmers voted Leave... Yet they get HUGE subsidies from the EU for their land, which would end after we leave... Even when asked, they couldn't articulate any reason for leaving, that would leave them better off. I don't understand it, and have stopped trying.

Although it was perhaps best revealed to me about 18 months ago, when I was walking through my local town centre, in step with 2 lads in their early 20s, when we passed a family, chattering away in Polish (large Polish community here). One lad said loudly to his friend, "so many f**king Polands around... Glad I voted Leave." Idiot.

Miljah I know what you mean about the 'fetid underbelly'.

As well know no MN posters voter for Brexit for racist reasons so all of us must be appalled by the rise in hate crime. The atmosphere of hate and distrust is distressing.

People have been empowered to say and do some awful things by what a significant minority see as Brexit's support for hatred of 'foreigners'.

My grandmother was a lifelong working class Tory. My grandfather was a card carrying Labour member. They had a very happy marriage for 50 years. They just respected each other view and voted as they wanted.

Which is as it should be, but it's a concept that appears to be utterly alien to many posters on this thread. Some posters on here come across as divisive, unable to compromise and just plain awful IMO.