DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

@Ellenborough

Bother, I requoted myself instead of you. Sorry about that. Post should have said:

Yes, I wanted us to leave the EU. Obviously.

Do you mind what shape that takes - for example would you be ok with EEA membership? If not, what criteria need to be met for you to get the outcome you want?

Porque no los dos? Is that from an advert? It rings a bell.

Oh! Tacos. Sorry, I realised as I typed bell. Old El Paso

I got this far and thought you might have the wrong thread Police were in attendance, but the seven officers - most of whom remained in their van - threatened to outnumber the protesters. [Accenture, Julia Long]

And then got to the dog!

Is that reporter a bloody comedy genius?

I don't know that advert! I don't do Reddit, but do make tacos

Also: this whining about a second referendum being 'undemocratic'... Farage himself said, before the vote, that he'd stamp his feet and tantrum if it was that close but Remain won: 52 % of those eligable to vote is a lot less than half the population so, you know, that's less than half of The People, which is what made it frankly, so frightening when national newspapers started screaming about The Will Of The People and Traitors.

Also, we have general elections every few years and no one demands that those who voted for whichever party won last time must vote the same way again (well, apart from maybe Theresa May who was banging on last time about securing power indefinitely...) Very few of those voting in the referendum knew what, exactly, leaving the EU would really mean given that this information was witheld and serious MISINFORMATION peddled by the Leave camp and many appear to have changed their minds or at least started saying that, whatever they meant or wished for when they voted Leave, it wasn't this clusterfuck and they want to change their minds.
If you buy something and find out it isn't as described, you're entitled to your money back. If you marry someone and find out they are not the person they appeared to be, you're entitled to divorce them. What's so horrifying about allowing people the chance to change their minds and record that change?

OP, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you and your DH were able to discuss whichever way you voted in a civil way, that that is a lot better than most posters on this forum.

I was brought up to keep any vote I made private and personal; if maybe more of us had done this, we wouldn't be in this mud slinging contest now. People who voted remain are NOT just remainers. People who voted leave are NOT just leavers. It is shocking that people are taking such a reductionist approach in their understanding of what is going on in our society currently. Everybody is/was entitled to their vote WITHOUT having to justify their choice to ANYBODY.

Although I can see that your differing views might seem to be problematic, there are probably many other major political issues that married couples disagree on; my grandparents were staunchly opposed politically yet had a long and happy marriage. What helped was the fact that they didn't live in a time when social media gave keyboard warriors the opportunity to denigrate people as racist, ignorant and uneducated when they chose to vote in a certain way in a democratic referendum.

If I were you, I would talk further about it to your OP but respect that the fact that his feeling was that he wanted to vote leave. Then move away from forums like these which perpetuate division and fracture and do very little to put forward rational debate and understanding of a highly complex issue.

Funnily enough, "¿Porque no los dos?" is grammatically incorrect. Maybe if we stayed in the EU our Spanish would be better.

Really? The little girl says it with such conviction too.

Is it an Americanism perhaps? I am sure both North and South American Spanish must be quite different from Spanish Spanish in all sorts of ways.

She says it correctly, it's just that the memers and forum users have transcribed it wrongly. It should be "¿Por qué no los dos?"

I haven’t read all of the comments so this may have been mentioned before.

I voted to leave. It was the last time I voted in the UK before I emigrated but the only vote I cast that I felt had any real impact.

I voted to leave for 2 major and one minor reasons.

Firstly, the EU as it is now is not what we agreed to join. When my grandparents voted in the 1970s in the referendum it was to join the “Common Market”. It was a trade agreement. They voted to join. I would have done too, had I been a voting-age adult at the time. I have no problem with being part of a trade agreement. But over time the Organisation changed behind our backs without our involvement or agreement. This is not what my grandparents signed up for. I think if any society or club of which you are a member changes the aim and rules of the club, you have the right to leave. If the majority of the British people want to be members of the EU, I will accept that. But we should join by mutual decision. Not join a trade agreement and then suddenly find ourselves involved in something completely different. I gave no problem with anew referendum on going to EU as it is now. If I were still in the UK I would vote against it but at least the outcome would be a democratic decision. Not forced in through the back door.

Secondly, I have an issue with people who don’t live in a particular country, don’t pay taxes there telling the people that do live there and pay taxes there how to run the country. Laws that impact on the lives of British people should be made in the UK by the UK. I now live in the USA and when I visited my family in the UK for a week last November it seems everyone there felt they needed to tell me what’s wrong with Trump and the United States. What do they know about it? They don’t live here. He’s not using their tax money to carry out his plans. Not their business.

My minor reason was that not being a member of the EU never harmed Norway or Switzerland. They benefit from the trade agreements without the shackles of bureaucracy that the EU involves. So why not leave?

I didn’t vote based on immigration - the vote happened during the time that I was applying for my immigrant visa to the USA so that would be a huge hypocrisy. I didn’t interpret the leave message as a promise that the NHS would get £350 million a day - I saw those adverts as a way of helping people to visualize how much it costs and what sort of things we could do with that money in the UK.

I'd also hazard a bet that not many Leave voters, and certainly not many who would vote Leave again, have friends or family who were born outside the UK. One of my main reasons for voting Remain was concern for good friends who are EU citizens, who have spent the past couple of years in a state of serious anxiety and distress about their futures. One applied for - and got - citizenship; others are not going to do so because they are so profoundly hurt that a country they chose as their home has effectively told them they are unwanted here.
I have always liked the fact that the UK is about the most diverse, mongrel country in the world. Everything we are has been influenced by wave after wave of migration. That's something to celebrate, not whine about, and certainly not something to try to prevent with violence and hatred.

It was the last time I voted in the UK before I emigrated but the only vote I cast that I felt had any real impact

And of course with the luxury that if it all goes tits up, you aren’t affected.....

They benefit from the trade agreements without the shackles of bureaucracy that the EU

Unfortunately, you are totally incorrect in that belief.

To me (with my experiences) yes. The fact you made him justify his choice to you, is abusive

Weird. I would have thought it pretty normal to ask why someone voted a certain way, if you don't understand. None of this "I voted what I voted and that's that"sounds more confrontational tbh.

britwife
a very well put post, now just wait for it to be torn apart or the faux confusion of " but what do you actually want" and "but i need a VALID reason for leaving"

never harmed Norway or Switzerland

There are significant differences between these economies and the UK. For example, both Norway and the UK discovered significant oil reserves. The UK has sold most of their reserves so that the £ was very strong in the 80's, most of the oil has gone and the £ us slipping again.

By contrast, Norway put its capital receipts from the oil into a national trust and only spend the interest.

The uk lives mostly by trade and financial services.

Very very different

Suggesting that a Norway deal would work for the UK because it works for Norway is to display a serious lack of understanding of how economies and global trade works.

Can you think of ways in which Switzerland and the UK may differ in the matter of capital reserves, making their economies very very different ?

JacquesHammer Well it wouldn’t have affected her if she’s voted Remain either.

I’m guessing OP that he probably just couldn’t be arsed to engage in dialogue with you about it as I assume the same conversation has played out many times between you since the referendum, and it gets a bit like Groundhog Day; people will ask the question, you tell them why you voted leave, people don’t listen to what you say, then some days later ask you the same question again. The amount of times on mumsnet that people ask ‘but please can a leaver explain the reasons for voting to leave’ is unreal. The question has been done to death as it’s been answered by many people many times. Just accept your DH has his reasons and respect he has a right to his own opinions, as have you. Bet he doesn’t constantly harass you for why you voted to remain.

But over time the Organisation changed behind our backs without our involvement or agreement.
This is not true. It changed in full view with the UK's involvement and needed the UK's agreement as we have the power to Veto. The UK did not suddenly find ourselves involved in anything. We were aware and involved every step of the way.

"I voted what I voted and that's that"sounds more confrontational tbh
no, you are wrong. A vote should really be private: nobody needs to justify it to anybody, . a simple statement that that was how they voted 9 should they wish to divulge) is sufficient. i'd be well pissed off if my husband started interrogating me about any decisions i made vote wise

They benefit from the trade agreements without the shackles of bureaucracy that the EU involves

Could you give us an example of this? As it stands this is a seriously ill informed view.

Norway and Switzerland absolutely are rule takers from the EU, with absolutely not say in what those rules are.

Well it wouldn’t have affected her if she’s voted Remain either

I know, I was being facetious given the tone of her post

Can you think of ways in which Switzerland and the UK may differ in the matter of capital reserves, making their economies very very different
can you think of any ways to any more patronising?

The 2016 referendum has been terrible for this country and has sadly poisoned many relationships. I'm barely speaking to much of my family because it allowed the racism they kept hidden in a closet to come out and bask in the sun.