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DH voted leave but can't articulate why

778 replies

DifferentViews · 24/03/2019 10:16

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

OP posts:
username4858 · 24/03/2019 15:41

I agree with you OP. People saying they voted out because they wanted change but can't say what that change will be infuriates me. A lot of this countries problems are nothing to do with being part of the EU. In fact a lot of them will probably get worse when we leave.

LazariaMoon · 24/03/2019 15:42

So your husband is not allowed to vote the way he chooses without being answerable to you? Ridiculous. You have no right to be angry.

Ok so if there was a political party many years ago that was opposed to gay marriage and adoption, and your DP said he voted for them because he agrees with that, you have no right to be angry on behalf of all those people? Of course you do.

PCohle · 24/03/2019 15:44

Who on earth genuinely thinks their spouse's political views are none of their business?

It is important to me that my DH's fundamental values and beliefs are, broadly speaking, in alignment with my own.

LazariaMoon · 24/03/2019 15:45

it was the last time I voted in the UK before I emigrated

Why would you vote on such a huge decision if you were going to emigrate and have it not affect you? Then you go on about "what do people outside the US know about Trump, nowt to do with them and their taxes".

themoomoo · 24/03/2019 15:47

Why would you vote on such a huge decision if you were going to emigrate and have it not affect you
because they were eligible to vote maybe?

LazariaMoon · 24/03/2019 15:48

no, you are wrong. A vote should really be private: nobody needs to justify it to anybody, . a simple statement that that was how they voted 9 should they wish to divulge) is sufficient. i'd be well pissed off if my husband started interrogating me about any decisions i made vote wise

Well sorry but I think you are wrong. I wouldn't be pissed off at being asked why, it is natural curiosity to know the reasons why people voted a certain way. I find your thinking odd, you find mine odd. I can't imagine being so closed off and obstinate to not even discuss it.

LazariaMoon · 24/03/2019 15:49

Why would you vote on such a huge decision if you were going to emigrate and have it not affect you
because they were eligible to vote maybe?

Yes, I just don't get why you would vote if you were leaving the country so it wouldn't make a difference to you either way.

NunoGoncalves · 24/03/2019 15:51

Yes, I just don't get why you would vote if you were leaving the country so it wouldn't make a difference to you either way

Maybe they don't know whether they'll be leaving forever?

LazariaMoon · 24/03/2019 15:52

Maybe they don't know whether they'll be leaving

Yes that would make more sense thanks, I was thinking a permanent move.

Windowsareforcheaters · 24/03/2019 15:53

themoomoo you accuse posters of being patronising but don't address the point being made.

If you want to stop insults comment on the point not the poster.

The point being made was about Norway and Switzerland. Both of them have to obey EU laws and bureaucracy with no say in the rules. This is in direct contradiction to what a leave voter stated.

Livelovebehappy · 24/03/2019 15:53

You’re leaving behind friends and family so presumably have their best interests at heart so would still vote to make the country a better place for them.

NunoGoncalves · 24/03/2019 15:54

I moved "permanently" away from my home country, but I would still vote there on something that could change it in the very long term.

Because forever is a long time and even though I have no plans to ever move back, I can't say for sure what might happen in 10, 20, 30 years time!

themoomoo · 24/03/2019 15:54

Lazaria many people are happy to discuss their voting choices; I do with my husband.
But if someone doesn't want to that has to be respected. as I pointed out on a previous thread, there is a reason voting booths exist; to allow private voting.
It's the height of bad manners to insist anybody shares their voting opinion if they don't want to.

Windowsareforcheaters · 24/03/2019 15:56

If a partner or friend was voting for the BNP I would care very much and I would feel it was very much my business to comment on.

If you are voting to harm or hurt people then the people around you will be upset. A quite rightly too.

gamerwidow · 24/03/2019 15:57

I can't imagine being so closed off and obstinate to not even discuss it.
Votes are private to allow people to vote how they want to without pressure from third parties trying to force them to vote a certain way.
No-one has to discuss their vote if they don't want to. I'm always happy to share how I've voted but I can understand why other people don't want to especially if they've voted in a different way to their peers.

StroppyWoman · 24/03/2019 16:03

The thing I don't understand about a Leave vote, it why disbelieve the vast majority of experts in their fields? It feels like Climate Change deniers claiming there are two sides to the argument.

The TUC say it will be bad for workers, the CBI say it will be bad for industry, the leaders of the NHS and the Civil Service say it will be disastrous, the haulage industry says it's destroying the industry, the car and aerospace manufacturers are leaving, we're stockpiling food and medicine with no guarantees of easy supply, our law enforcement will lose access to shared information, and international peace treaty (GFA) is put at risk, it makes Scotland more likely to secede, our cancer diagnosis (I think? or maybe treatment, I forget just now) and our water purification chemicals all come from Europe, our universities share students and lecturers actross Europe, our mobile phone roaming services are free, our goods are more expensive, Japan has withdrawn from us, and racist hate crimes are on the rise...
My Asian neighbours have been called P*s for the first time in 20 years, my Polish friends say they are insulted and abused and are expecting to leave the UK after many years here.

Not all Leavers are racist, obviously, but all the racists voted Leave. That Farage poster and the scaremongering about Turkey were abominations.

We get so much out of being a member of the EU.

We are losing all that, our standing on the international stage is diminished - we're basically a laughing stock.

I don't blame the OP.
I'm furious that a lying, illegal campaign run by people you'd cross the road to avoid, and backed by the super-rich wanting to escape the EU before the tax loopholes are closed, convinced 17 million of my fellow Brits that it was all "Project Fear" and none of the experts were worth listening to.
I'm livid that May puts party before country and has brought us to this precipice. And I do feel anger at people I know who voted Leave because they wanted change, because that change will cost the future for our children and their children. I know a good few who only voted Leave because they were confident Remain would win but wanted to send a protest vote to Westminster, a slap in Cameron's face.
My parents' friends voted Leave then realised it might mean spending winters in their Spanish apartment would be in jepardy, and are furious with Spain, not the government.
It would be laughable if it weren't such a disaster.

We have made the UK a global irrelevance.

Kennehora · 24/03/2019 16:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

themoomoo · 24/03/2019 16:06

stroppy Spain has confirmed that there will be no disruption to British people living in/ holidaying in Spain. All will be exactly the same whatever happens.

CeciledeVolanges · 24/03/2019 16:07

I think one of the reasons that there is a bit of a tendency to conflate voting to leave the EU with having racist or xenophobic views is because the government, which is in charge of shaping how the UK leaves the EU and what it does afterwards, itself has a tendency to adopt policies which tend to the discriminatory and xenophobic, to the point of being repressive and inhumane (I'm thinking along the lines of the hostile environment, here) and does seem to have been listening to, and catering to, those elements within the Conservative Party to the exclusion of everyone else.

This is such an emotive topic because there is a tendency across the country now to identify as a leaver or a remainer rather than as a tory or labour voter, and it''s quite uncomfortable to have part of your identity challenged, so both sides have a tendency to lash out. Personally, as a really ardent remainer who campaigned to remain at the time of the referendum, I've lived with two leave-voting members of my family and we frequently had polite and detailed discussions - my grandparents are both intelligent and well-educated, and I'm certainly well-educated, although probably not as clever. My grandmother could explain to me the political, economic and social issues which motivated her leave vote, and she is concerned about a lot of the same things in society as I am, just thinks they should be solved differently. She also told me that she was very young during WWII when it was official policy, and spread through propaganda, to hate German people. I was lucky enough to go to a multicultural school and live abroad during my childhood, so not being tolerant of other nationalities and faiths is just something that wouldn't occur to me, but actually I can completely understand why someone who was young during WWII would have fears and reservations about being more closely united with Europe.

I'm afraid I am viscerally angry and afraid about Brexit, though. Of course the EU is a flawed institution, of course we don't know what the future will be even if we do remain, but the fact is that the country will be much poorer, much more isolated, much less influential, much more abjectly in thrall to more powerful countries like the US and China, and that will do huge amounts of harm to a lot of people across the country. I was listening to a couple of people yesterday saying that nothing would change if there was no deal and their organisation wasn't preparing, and I didn't feel angry about their views, just scared for them, because my job involves advising businesses on how to prepare for Brexit in a certain area, and things will change, suddenly and dangerously. Even if leaving the EU is the right thing to do, it certainly isn't the right time when hateful, incompetent and frankly stupid politicians are in charge, which they are.

I also have emotional reasons to want to remain - I think humans can really only do great things and work against things like disease, climate change, conflicts and so on when we work together. As for the non-emotional reasons, people in all sorts of fields who are very knowledgeable have put forward compelling arguments to remain which I am persuaded by.

Finally, about the TTIP, because this is getting long - yes, that's a huge cause for concern. It's especially concerning that the UK is likely to end up with that kind of mechanism for resolving disputes once we leave the EU, not just with the EU itself but with the other countries we enter into trade deals with. I confess, I'm not an expert in this area but would love to hear more of your views about that, Curious.

NunoGoncalves · 24/03/2019 16:09

I speak Spanish but couldn't be arsed to hunt down an upside down question mark or a correctly accented e on my phone, while walking down the road in bright sunlight, for the sake of a very brief low-effort joke

Eh? I wasn't even referring to the inverted question mark! Facepalm.

Also, I clearly made a little "if only we stayed in the EU our Spanish might be better" joke to maintain the lightheartedness. Relax a little!

steff13 · 24/03/2019 16:12

As an outsider (American), I've read quite a few off these threads. My impression is that many people who voted remain consider themselves to be morally and intellectually superior to those who voted leave. I don't blame the leave voters for not wanting to discuss their reasons, which, frankly, are none of your business. I suspect that for many remain voters, no reason would be "good enough" for you, regardless of how legitimate or well thought out it is.

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/03/2019 16:15

Windowsareforcheaters
If a partner or friend was voting for the BNP I would care very much and I would feel it was very much my business to comment on.

If your partner were a hardened BNP supporter it would no doubt show in how he acts in life, and you would be able to tell whether you would put up with it or not.

Being a leaver does not make you a stereotype of a person and from what I have read on here the people that shutting people out are acting upon preconceived ideas with no evidence to support them.

Kennehora · 24/03/2019 16:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stevie69 · 24/03/2019 16:17

To be fair a lot of remain voters also voted without being able to articulate why.

One of the joys of democracy is that everyone's vote is worth the same regardless off whether they understand what they're voting for or not and whether they have thought about it or not!

And let's be honest, neither side could actually know what they voted for: who knows what the future of the EU looks like and noone knows what leave looks like.

I'm a remainer, but I despair at the polarization of views that is so destructive and the idea that someone else's views are only valid if they can robustly defend them.

Post of the day Smile

For those suggesting that I need to be able to articulate why I voted in a certain way, then ..... no, actually I don't. My decision can be made on the toss of a coin if I so wish. I don't need to explain anything: that's our democratic system.

And for those suggesting that the UK will be worse off out of the EU, well, over 50% of those that bothered to vote disagreed with you.

NunoGoncalves · 24/03/2019 16:20

really wasn't lighthearted. You made a sneery comment

I'm not sure how you know the intent behind my post better than I do. I don't know why you're so angry. You misread the tone. No need to be rude about it.

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