DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

I know I'm being pedantic but one of the things that has driven me mad is posters saying the EU is undemocratic. It isn't.

You might not like the form of democracy, you might dislike the structures, you might dislike the weighting of power, but it is a democratic organisation.

It just is.

what I am yet to meet a balanced remainer simply asking innocent questions.
Most remainers on here are closer to a cult like obsession with the EU that truly terrifies me, they have zero critical thinking skills.
The remain side have been increasingly thuggish and bullish sadly. All civility was lost a long time ago when you decided democracy was no longer important to you, and started a demented campaign to prevent the result being implemented.

Why do you feel angry? It's his opinion and his choice. I've voted out too. Are you angry at me?

Look at it from your husband's point of view.
My wife voted remain, I did not, I am fine with it, I love her, that she feels so strongly about things...
However all her friends are saying I am wrong and too leave me, god I hate her friends trying to break us up.

Fine! If you want to see the approval of 28 commissioners nominated by the prime ministers and presidents of EU member states as them having been elected then I will discuss it with you no further. We won't be able to sway each other and it will just become a circular irritation!

Could someone explain why

zero critical thinking skills. in relation to Remainers is fine

Thick in relation to leavers is not.

Both are wrong surely?

Windowsareforcheaters

You know full well that most people on both sides see it as wrong.

but it is getting increasingly harder to tell apart who wants a discussion and who is just goading.

Council of ministers are not Commissioners.

Council of Ministers are made of the elected politicians of each country.

For each area agriculture, trade etc the relevant elected minister from each country attends. It is entirely democratic.

I agree with the posters saying that a lot of remain voters have never been able to articulate why they voted remain. Indeed, quite a number I have encountered didn't know what the EU WAS when they voted in the referendum. In fact, I encountered more remain voters during the first six month after the Brexit vote who couldn't tell me what the EU was, than LEAVE voters who couldn't!!!

I'm sorry for being goady but both sides are calling each other names and the victim narrative is getting tiresome.

Both sides need to stop and disingenuous posts calling Remainers names while pretending to be victims is helping no one.

Posted too soon.

That post is utter bollocks.

Council of ministers are not Commissioners. I have not said otherwise!

My point has been about the Commissioners....who are nominated.

doe it really matter or actually anything to do with you which way dh voted ? it's his choice. i voted out too but don't feel the need to mention all my uni education,because that's tedious and again, no one elses business.

All civility was lost a long time ago when you decided democracy was no longer important to you

This is the problem, so many people suggesting a new and incorrect definition of democracy

Blibbyblobby
On MN you have a point. But MN is a pretty small part of the world. But have a look at comments on the Times, the Sun, the Mail, the Express

I must confess I don't read or consider the Sun/Mail/Express to be newspapers but I take your point and of course a small percentage of leavers will post extreme views on those rags. If you are basing your opinion of Leavers on them I think you are doing the majority of us a mis-service.

Anyway this is pointless, ne'er the twain shall meet and all that. I try to keep off of these threads these days but got sucked into this one. Now bowing out.

Over and Out

It's not very democratic to demand the will of 17.2 MILLION people is ignored is it hmmmm?

And what about the other 50 MILLION people who live in this country?

approval of 28 commissioners nominated by the prime ministers and presidents of EU member states as them having been elected

The commissioners are not elected. The head of the Commission goes through a process of election - although it is problematical.

This is in effect the civil service function though and in most countries is in no way democratically accountable.

The Council of Ministers is democratic.
The Parliament is democratic.

Key functions work in a democratic way making the EU fundamentally a democratic organisation.

I think it's important to have some shared values with your partner. You don't have t agree on anything, but if you disagree on big issues - religion, politics, money, views on what relationships are about - it is useful to be able to articulate what the differences are. You might not talk about them a great deal, but the mutual understanding is important. So I'd be frustrated if, for example, my partner wanted children to be brought up in a religious school and to attend church, but couldn't say anything at all about the nature of his faith or why he thought it was important to have a religious upbringing.

My vote in the Referendum was based around a set of values. I can see that people who voted differently from the way I did will also have been influenced by a set of values. People can't always articulate what their values are. But I think if it was an issue for me, then I'd hope that my partner would try to explain. (Rather in the same way that I'd want a partner to make an effort in the house or remember my birthday.) Generally in a good relationship people will try to accommodate each other's needs.

Someone who voted leave, and cannot articulate why, has been influenced by the bullshit lies spread about by morons like Farage, has let all that irrational nationalistic crap seep into their thoughts. I would find that unforgivable too OP.

Someone who still wants to vote leave, who explained why and pointed out their research - very different. Although I’d still think they were wrong and encouraging the gross and backwards swing towards racism (whether they meant to or not).

i mention that because i don't believe All highly qualified people voted to remain, have you asked your gp, gynae consultant et al. no, don't bother, they might have voted leave so that would make them 'thick' and 'stupid' in the eyes of many remainers.

@BoneyBackJefferson

So apart from the snipe at the end, do you also have the promises form the other remainers on MN?

1. It's not a snipe. I'm making it clear that while I will treat any valid argument with respect, if someone states as fact something that is provably wrong, or uses provably flawed logic (in the strictly classical sense, eg animals have 4 legs, chairs have 4 legs => chairs are animals type fallacy), I would point that out. I think that's important because there is so much fake info floating around, we need to differentiate between giving people respectful space to present their arguments and allowing actual (even unintentional) falsehoods to stand.

2. Of course I don't have promises from anyone else. I am not speaking for anyone else. I'm asking for myself, because I am frustrated with Leavers telling me that as a Remainer I need to listen to them give their reasons and try to understand, then not giving me anything except complaints about Remainers.

Surely if you don’t really understand the issues- and, frankly, how many of us did- you either abstain or vote for the status quo?

Windowsareforcheaters

Both sides need to stop and disingenuous posts calling Remainers names while pretending to be victims is helping no one.

So they should stop "pretending to be victims" of name calling. When they are victims of being name called?

I'm not going to pretend that leavers are blameless but at least don't pretend that the name calling doesn't happen.

But yes both sides need to stop. but at least it has calmed down from the abuse leavers received directly after the referendum.

Windows I am not sure of your postsnow... you have misinterpreted, misunderstood me and misrepresented my words to say something I had not. And are still repeating things I know as if that would change my mind!

I don't see the power balance as you do. That's it!

Now if you want to discuss the TTIP...

As a point of interest. If you look at the revoke petition map, with the notable exception of Birmingham, towns and cities with large university populations are signing at a significantly higher level.

This does lead to the question as to whether a university education makes you clever.