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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DH voted leave but can't articulate why

778 replies

DifferentViews · 24/03/2019 10:16

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

OP posts:
cuppycakey · 24/03/2019 13:17

LTB

Tanith · 24/03/2019 13:19

I am wondering about those Leave films that were shown. They remind me of a film I was once shown in a training workshop about personal happiness and empowerment.

Lots of fast moving, often disconnected images, flashing... I just found it irritating and the trainer said nothing of substance either.

At the end, I saw the feedback. Other delegates were enthusing, saying it was the best session they'd ever attended. I couldn't understand it, so I asked them why. They couldn't tell me.
I asked them to tell me one thing the trainer had actually said. They couldn't remember. All they could tell me was it was best session they'd ever attended. They got quite annoyed when I said I didn't agree.

BertrandRussell · 24/03/2019 13:19

“The fact that a majority of British people actually got off their backsides to vote Leave has to tell you something.”

A majority of British people didn’t.

SevenSeasofRye · 24/03/2019 13:20

No the bullying is ENTIRELY in the Remain camp. Both in my personal life and what I have observed on MN.

ClariceCliffe · 24/03/2019 13:20

An earlier poster mentioned pre-EU times with poverty, slums, and poor working conditions. I would suggest that we still have them - I'm not suggesting this is related to the EU, its down to the government.

Also, whilst I agree that the EU has contributed to peace in Europe, our membership of NATO is the main factor of our continuing peace.

SilverySurfer · 24/03/2019 13:21

In my experience on here and elsewhere, the bullying/childish/abusive behaviour tends to be from the Leave camp. Remainers are frustrated (and rightfully so, who can deny the utter shitshow we're in) but generally remain respectful.

Risible and just reading this thread will prove you wrong.

ClariceCliffe · 24/03/2019 13:22

Bertrand
Facile semantics. A majority of those who voted made the decision to vote for leave.

CostanzaG · 24/03/2019 13:25

Zsazsa if you could maybe ask in a less patronising tone then I'm sure he'd be willing to engage in a discussion with you...... providing you are willing to not use the words racist, xenophobia or thick because he is none of those.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/03/2019 13:26

It’s difficult to post rationalise a leave vote because the rational reasons for it are thin. No, it's because the reasons for voting leave are based in an ideology rather than a measurable construct.

All of the analysis of voters seem to agree that Remainers voted because of economics and Leavers because of immigration and sovreignty.

All voted because of a financial imperative, but believed different root causes / effects and it seems that identification with 'Europe' was quite key. The less European you felt the more likely you were to vote leav - all paraphrased from the Nuffield's Social Investigation Unit which has short and long reports which are quite interesting reads!

For my part I beleive that the EU is not democratic, that the immigration policy imposed upon the UK is in itself racist in that it positively discriminates infavour of white Europeans and makes trade with some African countries frought with danger to those working, making, selling etc.

I work with a charity send modified wheelchairs to Africa and have seen the damage done by restrictive trade tariffs, we, countries in the EU, force some African countres to sell at a deficit in order to feed us products like string beans. If you odubt that ask UK farmers about how they are paid... and then imagine that on a nationwide, all products scale.

And think about that, an arid continent known for its famines growing non indigenous, non essential foods for export.

And that is before you get to my favourite hobby horse, The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership Many years ago I read a sci fi book about a large multinational coiorporation thatgrew so large it ran the world, then the universe - Heinlein based it on Coca Cola (how right he was), Asimov had idea about trade boards, Herbert had his own Guilds.

Nowadays it exists and will make every nation in Europe subservient to multinational businesses. Corporations will be able to sue governments if they implement a change to the law that causes the corporation economic loss. WaronWant say this

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) is a major new deal being negotiated behind closed doors between the EU and USA.

It will cost at least 1 million jobs, undermine our most treasured public services, lead to a ‘race to the bottom’ in food, environmental and labour standards and, for the first time, allow US companies to sue the UK government in special courts.

Such is the stuff sci fi nightmares and blockbuster movies are made of. In the movies we have Bruce or Tom coming to save us. In real life....? Not sure about that but voting Leave and stepping out of such an arrangement seems like a good idea!

And yes, I knew all of that before I voted!

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/03/2019 13:26

Ellenborough

you must only mix with stupid, ignorant, inarticulate people and you only read the gutter press.

Although this ^ is very likely. It is also very likely that like so many remainers they don't actually listen to what is being said.

Windowsareforcheaters · 24/03/2019 13:26

No the bullying is ENTIRELY in the Remain camp

Does the statement "we won, you lost, get over it" count as bullying?

I think I may have heard it once or twice.

Both sides have fallen well short of good behaviour on occasions. Although, I think we can all be proud that at this difficult time politically a million people can take to the streets and protest peacefully.

AlexaAmbidextra · 24/03/2019 13:27

As someone who voted to join the (then) EEC in the 1970's

We didn’t vote to join. We were already in thanks to Ted Heath. We voted to stay in.

Kennehora · 24/03/2019 13:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Windowsareforcheaters · 24/03/2019 13:28

I beleive that the EU is not democratic

The EU is demonstrably democratic.

Elections, parliament, elected ministers making decisions.

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/03/2019 13:28

BertrandRussell

A majority of British people didn’t.

The majority of the British people that could be bothered to vote did.

Blibbyblobby · 24/03/2019 13:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

americandream · 24/03/2019 13:30

@Laska2Meryls

I agree OP, I am really down about it all , today , Some of the people I Went to uni with and politically campaigned with, and thought were really good friends with for 20 years , voted leave . And daft as it may seem I really haven't been able to see them ever since.. They were witnesses at our wedding too. I have had to put the photos away.

PMSL. This is NOT a serious post?! You're winding us up, obviously. Grin

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/03/2019 13:31

The EU is demonstrably democratic.

Elections, parliament, elected ministers making decisions.

Demonstrably bollocks!

Yes we vote in MEPs however, as we all know (don't we?) the EU Parliament has absolutely no power to propose, make or repeal any laws. It is limited to amending laws that have been proposed by the EU Commission - non elected individuals!

We vote for the monkey and the organ grinder grinds away unopposed!

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/03/2019 13:33

Blibbyblobby

The problem with what you want is that when someone steps up and explains, they are almost instantly derided/insulted for their views.

If you want a proper discourse about something then it takes two sides to do it.

Unfortunately there are some on both sides that will not allow this to happen.

SheWoreBlueVelvet · 24/03/2019 13:34

Again..” we won, you lost” is a response to the constant haranguing of Remainers. I have never heard it ( and it wouldn’t make sense) to use it otherwise.How would you even know who voted what, to make that statement unless a Remainer brought it up?

Kennehora · 24/03/2019 13:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PostNotInHaste · 24/03/2019 13:36

This all depends on the nature of your relationships I think and individual circumstances. If DH had voted Leave it would have been very likely to have been the end of our relationship, as no doubt it would have been if I had voted Leave. That’s because it’s important to both of us that we are in broad agreement on things that will massively change our lives as Brexit directly will as DD will now be emigrating. The resentment a Leave vote from either of us would have been extremely hard to over come as a result. If circumstances and what we value in our relationship were different I don’t think it would have the same importance.

My Dad voted Leave and always will as feels that what he voted for in 1975 was not what the EU became. That’s fine by me, fully entitled to his view. He’s my Dad who I obviously love dearly and always will, and that’s very different to a relationship with a partner with whom you to choose your life with and is a totally different dynamic.

I’m currently not really having any contact with my Brother after he told me to F off. He will no doubt be telling people it was due to a row over Brexit about but actually it was about his failure to understand I hate conflict, his inability sense when I am stressed and inability to le something drop, his failure to accept I have a different view and insistence in trying to make me think the same as him, his lack of respect for me and is dreadful behaviour towards me when a relative was ill. It was about Brexit but could have been about anything.

So basically for me it’s all about the dynamics of a relationship.

dreichuplands · 24/03/2019 13:36

Liberals are terribke at giving open thought to a differing opinion.

I don't think they are any worse than any other party for that, in fact traditionally they have been slightly better, albeit only slightly than other parties.

Ellenborough · 24/03/2019 13:36

Windows I posted at great length on here in the run up to the referendum and immediately after it. I don't need to keep quiet, I just don't need to work hard to persuade anyone of anything. The referendum is over. I got the outcome I desired. I have no motivation to keep presenting the same arguments over and over to people who just ignore them, twist them, misrepresent me, hurl insults at me and make assumptions about my character and my intelligence.

I remember post-referendum someone started a thread saying something like 'If you voted Leave, tell me why you hate us Polish people so much? What did we ever do to you to deserve such hatred?'

It was a great long thread full of outraged Remainers apologising to the Polish OP for the millions of British people who had voted Leave obviously for no other reason than that they must just HATE the Polish. Hmm

Windowsareforcheaters · 24/03/2019 13:38

The Commission acts as a civil service - we don't elect the civil service in the U.K. The head of the Commission is elected by the Council of Ministers making the EU more democratic than the U.K. where the head of the civil service is appointed.

Most decisions are taken by the Council of Ministers which is made up of democratically elected politicians.

The EU parliament can not propose legislation to keep it within its remit - to limit the power of the EU. Only specifically EU relevant legislation is allowed. It was believed by opening up the power to propose legislation some MEPs would overstep the boundaries and expand EU jurisdiction.

Restricting how and by whom legislation is introduced is not uncommon in constitutional politics.

You may dislike the way the EU 'constitution' works, you may wish changes but it is democratic.

If the EU is undemocratic because you perceive some flaws in the system then the U.K. is undemocratic as well - House of Lords anyone?

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