DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.

I think this sums up the issue. The facts are there, undisputed ones. We will be worse off, which ever way you cut it, there is no gamble, we know.

So why doesn't he do some research? He's clearly not even bothered reading up on it if he thinks "we don't know". We do. It's just he doesnot because he can't be arsed researching it.

It will not be over and done with either way for decades.

Brexit will not go away.

Dh voted remain. I voted leave. I'd still vote leave as would plenty of other middle class intelligent educated people I know. None of whom appear to be racist or stupid but it suits yiur agenda to think otherwise. Liberals are terribke at giving open thought to a differing opinion. It's the aggressive opinionated typical attitudes of many remainers that explains why leavers are so fucking quiet. I don't have to explain myself to you. Your attitudes have massively contributed to the reason why millions voted to leave which is laughable really. You really have no idea that you have unintentionally created this whole situation

I think it's pretty normal to vote with your gut, your heart or whatever. Nobody needs to have to defend the reasons why they voted for a legitimate option in a state organised ballot.

Billben how about people who are not able to articulate well, they should not have to justify for anybody. There was a vote with 2 outcomes, and people have a right to vote who they want, without being ripped apart. Yes DH is just like yours, I think they will both get on very well together. The difference being, that dh is much more articulate vocally than me, and is able to get his point across very well, and has counter arguments for any opposition, he spends most of his free time researching Brexit and getting information.

blighter, don't you see that your type of response perpetuates the problem? Most people are prepared to listen to someone else's viewpoint, but they can't if that person is saying in effect "I shan't tell you because you'll be nasty and it's all your fault anyway". Particularly when, only too frequently, being nasty translates as nothing more dreadful than expressing a different opinion or producing facts that might cast doubt on your reasoning.

'Abusive' - get real. Way to shut down a perfectly legitimate discussion. Some people do the same thing with words like 'narcissist', 'gaslighting', 'stalking', etc. Indiscriminate use dilutes the power of such terms and just makes you sound hysterical and... abusive.

A bit like some people who do the same thing with racist, xenophobe, ignorant, thick, stupid?*

blighter lots of moderate conservatives voted remain. Lots of people on the left voted remain. Small l and big L liberals make a percentage of Remainers but do not speak for all of them.

I think your prejudice is showing when you say:

Liberals are terribke at giving open thought to a differing opinion

the idea that someone else's views are only valid if they can robustly defend them.
Of course everyone should be able to defend their views! Otherwise everyone could just make any statement and people would have to accept it as a valid opinion. Opinions are only valid of there is sound reasoning behind them.

@blighter I agree. I voted leave and would absolutely do so again.

My DH is constantly trying to discuss politics with me. I do in fact have very good reasons for my views, which I will discuss with people I think will listen, but not with him. He's like a dog with a bone when he gets onto politics, and his own views aren't logical, which annoys me.

So I won't engage with him anymore. An outsider listening in might think I had no reasons. But I just don't think I owe my DH any reasons.

It would be a different story if we were discussing a major joint personal decision we had to make. If I insisted that we needed to move house or cut ties with a family member, he would deserve to know my reasons and have a proper discussion. But this isn't like that.

Perhaps your DH just doesn't want to discuss politics with you because your views are different from his and he doesn't want to upset you, or he hasn't felt listened to previously. Let him be!

Dh voted remain. I voted leave. I'd still vote leave as would plenty of other middle class intelligent educated people I know. None of whom appear to be racist or stupid but it suits yiur agenda to think otherwise. Liberals are terribke at giving open thought to a differing opinion. It's the aggressive opinionated typical attitudes of many remainers that explains why leavers are so fucking quiet. I don't have to explain myself to you. Your attitudes have massively contributed to the reason why millions voted to leave which is laughable really. You really have no idea that you have unintentionally created this whole situation

So, please explain why you voted leave because I and millions of others would genuinely like to know. So far, reasons I've heard for voting leave are 'There are too many people on the tube' (from a Pole), 'to stop immigration' (from an American) and 'because too many tea rooms are shutting down in the countryside' (from my MIL). Since we are going to leave I would genuinely LOVE to hear some better arguments than that rather than be told I'm closed to different opinions, because I'm just not.

The vast majority of the choices we make are emotional and impulsive. Then we post rationalise them.

OP I hazard that your DP voted leave for some of the following reasons, to stick it to the government, to feel ‘free’ from the shackles of the modern world, to assert our authority over France/Germany, to keep outsiders at bay, to feel powerful and in control. He can’t articulate these thoughts because most of them are subconscious. Voting leave made him feel good.

It’s difficult to post rationalise a leave vote because the rational reasons for it are thin. You’ll have to accept that he can’t articulate his motivation.

@BigFatGiant

The reason why the remain position doesn’t seem woolly because it is a vote to maintain the status quo but most people don’t really understand the status quo. We can see obviously what it means in practice but the mechanisms that have created the UK we live in are beyond most people. It’s very difficult for people to understand the opportunity cost of our current position and even harder to understand what that means in practice.

You know, I couldn't entirely explain the mechanisms by which my liver works, but I'm pretty sure maintaining the status quo where my liver is inside me is better than opting to have it removed.

I don't entirely know the mechanisms by which the EU works. I do know that in my lifetime I've seen good things happen because of the EU (top being: ease of travel, cross-border flow of goods, clean beaches, mobile roaming tariffs, working time directive, investment in deprved areas).

I also know in my small area of expertise, EU protections and equivalent standards allow business to flourish, and based on that I extrapolate the same applies to other areas as well.

You are abusive.

He is entitled to this view, and he is entitled not to share his reasons with you!!!

He probably has pretty good reasons too, but knows it will only lead to you trying to tear away at them and cause yet more arguements.

I couldn’t live with someone who had so little respect for me, and would probably choose to leave you if I was married to someone like you.

Show some respect before your marriage folds.

Springwalk. For the twentieth time on this thread the OP didn't say he wasn't entitled to his view!

You would leave someone who wanted a political debate!

Good god. What utter drivel is posted sometimes.

@blighter

I'd still vote leave as would plenty of other middle class intelligent educated people I know. None of whom appear to be racist or stupid but it suits yiur agenda to think otherwise. Liberals are terribke at giving open thought to a differing opinion.

FYI, "Liberal" used in this way is something imported very recently from American culture. "Liberal" in the UK has a long and different political meaning. An actual middle class educated Brit simply would not use the term as you have.

When a Brit uses it, it's basically a big flashing neon sign of someone who has become politicised only in the last few years, and mainly through social media.

I.voted.remsin for emotional reasons. My family has dual nationality with another European country. I was born here but unlike many English people , my background had made me feel European I a way I know many other English people don't.
I want to.be able.work.ad live in any European country without any red tape and I have no problem with others coming here for the same reason . I.also.dont fear a federated Europe in the way most people seem to. I can't get worked up about sovereignty.

I am also risk averse so prefer to stay with the status quo. My biggest worry about leaving the EU is that Russia really is a danger in my opinion and the rest of Europe is safer together than apart. In short I am worried about a war with Russia.

Evonomically, I can't make head or tail of whether we would be better in or out in the long term though I know that the transition will be painful so prefer to work.with what we have now.

I am pretty scared of leaving and I think some people voted leave out of fear as well ( for them the fear of immigration etc) , but on the whole I think a lot of leavers made a brave choice, one for change and brave choices are usually risky. I admire them in a way but I don't want to take that risk as my view is that it is too risky and I resent being forced to take that large risk along with them.

In short I.am.a human being with confused contradictory , non rational and feelings and thoughts about the whole thing, just like most people, leavers or remainers.

Op your husband has taken an emotional decision you disagree with but I think you have probably done the same. You are probably just more risk.averse than your husband.

I think people have very short memories.
When the referendum was announced there was some campaigning on both sides but it was mostly Nigel and Boris and gimmicky buses from the Leave camp. I don’t think anyone expected Leave would win.

The fact that a majority of British people actually got off their backsides to vote Leave has to tell you something. Even if it’s because you believe half the country are stupid and racist that’s the Britian you’veactually got. A sizeable stupid, racist population that will actually turn out to vote for things. Despite being in the EU for 4 whole decades.

It’s always going to be harder to state the benefits of something that has no quantifiable outcome over the status quo. You leave anything that requires uncertainty ; a job you hate that pays the bills or a secure marriage that leaves you cold and it will be about the long term gain.

So, please explain why you voted leave because I and millions of others would genuinely like to know. So far, reasons I've heard for voting leave are 'There are too many people on the tube' (from a Pole), 'to stop immigration' (from an American) and 'because too many tea rooms are shutting down in the countryside' (from my MIL). Since we are going to leave I would genuinely LOVE to hear some better arguments than that rather than be told I'm closed to different opinions, because I'm just not.

Seriously? After all this time, you still want us to believe that you haven't heard an intelligent argument for Brexit? Not one that you necessarily agree with - just any intelligent argument.

Once again, as I just said to another poster, I'm forced to conclude that you must only mix with stupid, ignorant, inarticulate people and you only read the gutter press.

My biggest worry about leaving the EU is that Russia really is a danger in my opinion and the rest of Europe is safer together than apart. In short I am worried about a war with Russia.

I absolutely cannot understand why leavers freak out about closer ties in Europe yet aren’t thinking of this.

In my experience on here and elsewhere, the bullying/childish/abusive behaviour tends to be from the Leave camp. Remainers are frustrated (and rightfully so, who can deny the utter shitshow we're in) but generally remain respectful.

Oh please! Truly a case of just seeing what you want to see. Some of the abuse from remainers on here has been vile.

Think of when you had your first date, you had no idea of his views but there was something you liked about him, over time there are good and bad things in the relationship, you accept something's you disagree on because it is a part of whole of who you both are.

Ellenborough lots of leave voters insist they have brilliant well thought out arguments. They did lots of research and their arguments are well referenced and detailed.

However, they are now bored of sharing this brilliance and won't do it again.

Most people with good strong arguments are happy to share them. If you believe you have an argument that is solid and referenced it is odd you need to keep quiet about it.

Posters on the Brexit threads frequently ask for three referenced reasons for leaving. I haven't seen one post to this effect. That's a real shame.

I have seen several very detailed threads with reasons to remain. Perhaps that just reflects MN.