To tell the school no to this plan

[lyralalala]

I'll try not to waffle too long.

There's a boy in DS(10)'s class who every break or lunchtime only wants to play one specific playground game, and always wants to play it with either DS or another boy.

The school is excellent in terms of having a lot going on at break times to keep the kids busy and active. There's always football, one other 'moving around' game and then they have giant connect 4 type games as well as bits and bobs like skipping ropes etc.

This boy always wants to play one of the giant board games. My DS has no interest in them as he likes to play the running about games. The other boy is the same. They do sometimes play the board games with the boy, but they don't often. However, there is always a queue of kids waiting/willing to play (that's one of the reason DS doens't enjoy them, he says you basically wait ages and then have a quick game) so he is absolutely not being left with no-one to play with. Even his own Mum has said this on numerous occasions.

However, he wants to play with one of the two boys. If they say no he cries, gets angry or has some other big reaction that usually involves one of the adults in the playground stepping in. This has been an ongoing issue for the last few years. It has been escalating more recently as DS and the other boy have both been playing football most days as they've joined the school team (break times have no correlation on the team, they are just on a spurt of enjoying playing football). The boy has been throwing more and more tantrums and twice I've been called in as he has actually hit or kicked DS. Same with their other friend.

So the way the school have decided to deal with this is to have a rota. DS got upset at bedtime and told me that 2 lunchtimes a week, and 2 morning breaks a week, he's to play with the boy at the board game. 2 other lunches and breaks the other boy has to play with him. He was in tears when he said that he was told by Mr X (one of the school SLT) that the school needs "team players" and feels bad that he doesn't want to do it.

I'm livid. It's completely rewarding the bratty behaviour of the other boy imo. There's no SN or anything like that - I know his Mum well and she openly says that he's spoiled and is a 'demanding child'. Unfortunately she's one who thinks is easier and better just to give in to him once he gets loud.

Don't get me wrong, if the child had no-one to play with, or if my DS was in anyway saying that the boy couldn't play the game they were playing I'd understand it. In fact if DS was excluding him from the games I'd come down on him like a tonne of bricks! However, that's not what is happening. I'm not at all happy about almost half of his breaks being completely dictated by another child so specifically.

DH thinks it would be "kind" to tell the school we'll agree to 1 lunchtime, but I don't want to agree to any. AIBU to say no completely to any rota?

I work in a school and I always read threads that start with “should I going to the school? with a heavy heart. However, this is ludicrous. Just ask the school how does socialisation ever work (between adults or children” with an unwilling participant?

This will backfire.

Don’t go ‘marching’ into the school all guns blazing as some posters suggest. Getting all het up and noisy can look weak or get you labelled as one of ‘those’ parents.

Do it properly: email asking for clarification, and ask to meet with a member of SLT. Your ds should absolutely not be pressured to be on a rota - it’s a bizarre idea and not helpful to the child anyway, who needs to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around him. But important you do this properly- apart from anything else you’re modelling for your own son how to go about dealing with a situation, and it always looks so much more professional and in control to do it assertively and calmly

I would be worried about the message it's sending to all boys about consent etc.

My youngest has spent most of this year hat8ng school. Not wanting to go. We have never haD this previously.

Last half term, I received a call from one of her friends’ mums, her daughter was upse5 about what was happening at school.

It transpires that since September my DD had been sat next to one girl. This child talked continuously, disturbing DD, yet if DD asked he4 to be quiet, DD got told off for talking. The other girl would say mean things such as “you’re fat” or “you’re ugly” . She would talk across DD to th3 next door neighbour child, disturbing her, have ruler fights across DD, and pinch her etc.

If DD complained, the teacher wasn’t interested. DD was 8ncredibly patient and put up with being fobbed off, with being told th3 child would be punished next time, by the never was.

As soon as I heard all this (which DD hadn’t mentioned) I requested a telephone meeting with theteacher (I don’t usually pick up and I wanted it sorted quickly)

Once I spoke with it’s the end teacher, she admitted that she liked DD sat with the other girl as DD is so good and so patient with her. I pointed out that neither the teacher nor I would put up with sitting next to someone treating us like this, so why should DD?
It seems the tables are now having* to be moved on a weekly basis as no other child can bear sitting next to this child for long. THis reinforces the fact the teacher took advantage and used a good child to try and manage a naughty one.

Needless to say, DD is no longer saying she hates school.

I'd absolutely say no to this. Work out exactly how you want to frame your objection. Imo, the issue of consent is the main point I'd be making. The school is playing a very dangerous and irresponsible game by teaching your child that one person's wishes completely over-ride someone else's in this way. That long term the message it sends your son could have a potentially disastrous impact on his adult relationships. Teaching him that either he needs to put up and shut up or even have the opposite effect of teaching him that he should make a fuss until his desires are the ones that other people need to facilitate. It's certainly going to teach the other child the latter.

@YellowFish123 I've never worked in a school. But even I know everything you just posted is absolute bullshit.

Any update @lyralalala? Wondering what the school said. Hopefully they let him and the other boy off the hook.

DS has been hit or kicked for choosing to play football or rounders or something other than what this child wants
So this is not the first time that child has bullied your son to get his own way? Imo this “friendship” is toxic and I’d be telling the school not only will DS not be participating in this rota, he also will not be close friends with this boy. They can play together in a group but DS is not to be paired with him one on one, due to his possessive behaviour with DS which needs to be stopped. And I’d tell DS to stay away from him.

lyralalala I'm Mum of a DC who wanted to play the same game over and over, wouldn't play group games and would get upset if she had no one from what she considered her friends to play with although she never hit or kicked.
I would definitely say there is SEN at play.

That said that is irrelevant in a way. Yes school should look out for and work with children like mine, try to find them someone to play with if they are alone and don't want to be, try a buddy scheme with an older willing child, try to encourage my child's social skills etc but setting up a rota where children HAVE to play with her a certain amount of times a week and resent doing so would have made it 100 times worse.
Most kids are kindly souls. If you ask a child to include another child who is entirely alone at the time most children will. Enforcing this on a rota is not a good idea.

I don’t agree with it either, it’s surely up to your child what he does at break time.

I do think that they are setting the boy up for a fall and a huge wake up call by pandering to what he wants, and I’m a little surprised at that really.

What happens when he goes to secondary school they’re not going to be told what to do with there break time there, the school need to work with him and bring in his parents to resolve this issue, why should your son have to pander to someone else’s needs because his parents have not taught him that we don’t always get our own way in life, and its not your sons responsibility to make the schools life easier.

I think its time for you to discuss this with the school and tell them that that won’t be happening.

This is unfair on your son, but also long term it is not helping the other child either. They are placing the needs of another child above yours which is not on. Teachers should be supporting the other child to work out what is behind this behaviour so that long term this will be less of an issue for him. It's the teachers responsibility not your child's to sort this playtime issue out. Your DS should be able to use his playtime as he wants to run off energy with his mates. Hope you get on ok today OP

YellowFish123 I've worked in numerous schools for decades with some truly awful parents. Parents who are so aggressive they are banned from school grounds. I've never known a child forced out because their parents raise issues in state. Private is another matter...

Stop scaremongering.

If a school head is forcing pupils out because their parents complain about their children being hurt physically in temper that doesn't say much for his leadership skills.

Completely unfair on your ds. And that would be a big fat NO for me too.

Even if you assume that the child in question has a some form of SN, forcing the two boys to play with him will de detrimental to THEM. It’s telling them that them that they dint matter and that the wishes of another child trump theirs. Encouraging them to play with said child, which is what they have been doing for so long anyway, is a different thing.
If the child doesn’t have any SN, then they are basically reinforcing the spoiled behaviour . What a thing to teach!

Do you know the mother of the other child and could you get in touch with her? I wouod go to see the HT together and tell them the school solution isn’t acceptable.

So Op's son & the other boy would be being bullied into playing board games that they don't want to at play time?

What could possibly be wrong with that?

Btw I would also point out that the child has been violent several times towards your ds.
Is the school really expecting your ds to be forced to play with a child that has been bullying him for years just to get what he wants?

Other side of the coin is that, if the child has some SN and is so ‘attached’ to the OP’s ds, then the best thing the school can now atbthis time (Y6) is to teach the child to create new relationhsip as clearly this will not continue in 6 months time once they are in secondary.

This is a bad idea. For everyone concerned. Regardless of SN or not.

YANBU. I'd also go apeshit about the violence which is unacceptable.

Can you present a united front with the mother of the other friend who's also on the rota?

Let us know how it goes!

Break times are supposed to allow the children free play away from the structure and routine of school. OP's child os not being allowed this freedom. This is not on.

YANBU to go into school to talk about this - it sounds like the school is trying to solve issues with a lack of staffing by, effectively, punishing your child for it. The other child should not be rewarded for his violence and unpleasantness by getting to do exactly what he wants 100% of the time with either your ds or the other child, whilst your child has to spend 50% of his playtimes being forced to play with a child who will otherwise hit and kick him. The school needs to come up with a more sensible plan to teach the other child that you cannot bully other people into submission at playtimes...

Go in calmly and ask for clarification first. If you go in all guns blazing they will backtrack and try to cover themselves.

I would eat my hat if there is no ASD at play here. Schools miss ASD a lot. I’ve heard of autistic children being missed for years because they have good eye contact for example. Both of mine were refused referrals from school, but they both scored very highly on the ADOS. They are no less autistic than others.

But anyway it makes no difference to the fact I’d be saying HELL NO (again, only after getting clarification of their plans, just on the offchance DS has misunderstood).

I would make sure to include in your talk how bad this is for this boy. Learning that throwing a strop and being violent gets you your way is doing him no favours whatsoever. He needs to be supported by staff to learn HOW to play appropriately. Ask them, what do they think will happen when this boy enters the world of work and wants things done a certain way? What about a future partner who won’t obey his every whim? There is a reason there’s all sorts in the media lately about how play is the work of childhood. Behaviour being pandered to now sets the scene for adult life, now is the time he needs to be helped to learn to manage his own expectations and learn social rules.

I would make sure to include in your talk how bad this is for this boy. Learning that throwing a strop and being violent gets you your way is doing him no favours whatsoever. He needs to be supported by staff to learn HOW to play appropriately. Ask them, what do they think will happen when this boy enters the world of work and wants things done a certain way?

Absolutely do not do this! The meeting should only be about the OP's son and that he is not participating in this rota. Anything else is nothing to do with the OP at all, and it's not the school's place to discuss anything about this child with her. How they manage the child is their own issue, as long as they keep her son out of it.

If this boy needs a rota, it should either be voluntary or the whole class/year takes a turn so each child only loses max one playtime a month.

I would even say no to once a month.
This child's behaviour is the reason they don't want to socialise with him.
I will never teach my child that a violent person must be pandered to and that their wants and feelings trump theirs.

Not overly impressed this morning. Grabbed a quick word with the mastermind of this plan and his only concern, that he repeated multiple times, was that the child has already been told of the rota plan so changing it would be problematic.

He got wonderfully patronising about how difficult it is for schools to accommodate the wishes of all of the children at that point. Backtracked a bit when I pointed out that I'd worked in schools for 15 years so I'm not a parent who expects the moon on a stick. I just expect my child to be treated fairly and equally, and not to be used to solve a problem that is squarely the schools to solve.

Have a meeting with the Head at 2 as wasn't happy at all with either the responses, or the lack of agreement that DS won't be made to do this. His only concern seemed to be that it was taking up a lot of time for the school in dealing with it every day - which is not DS's problem.

Shall see how it goes this afternoon. The other rota'd boys mum was in reception as I was leaving, but I didn't get a chance to speak to her. I'm assuming she wasn't there to compliment them on the idea though.

Screw them OP. You don't have to negotiate. Your DS isn't doing this rota. End of.