Circumcision

[muma19]

DP wants DS circumcised however I don't. I also have MIL getting involved and pressuring me. What do I do? I want to be fair to my partner but I really don't want him veg for circumcised. HELP!!!!

Just say no. It's time it was illegal except for essential medical reasons - cultural or religious reasons should be banned! It's plain wrong.

And from first hand experience,

I’m a mother who corcumsized her child. Come from a religious family.

My brother is married outside our faith to a lovely lady. When she has a son , she will probably be horrified at the concept of circumcision.. which is totally understandable.

I am sure between her and my brother they can work out a compromise. I can imagine one family member being pushy about it (I don’t agree with them usually), but I also can see that even though they might not agree but they can respect the decision if explained to them in a respectful manner. IBut if she comes up with shit arguments that are presented here on this thread, you bet that you would face arguments that don’t respect your point of view... and it would be earnt OP.

He is your DS and your DH son. You knew fully well who he is and how much his heritage means to him before marrying him and part of that means having some respect. You don’t have to agree with it but you need to try find ways to respect it.

You don’t have to adhere to it but you also need to give them the space to not adhere to your thinking.

So when you present your argument, come from a neutral perspective else you are igniting sensitivities for yourself..

My sil has won us all over by her gentle approach, she respects where we are coming from, does some thorough research to see which rules are breakable and lets us know accordingly that she doesn’t feel she would be disrespectful of us if she does it her way.. we don’t always agree but I cannot not respect that...

Just don’t impose your thinknt on others and don’t assume they’re idiots who haven’t done their research or speak to them as such just because you feel passionate about the topic.

It’s ur son, I get it. You can have it your way, just don’t cause drama over it.

The approach matters. And most attitudes on here will land you in a needless argument. So avoid

Being in possession of a fully functioning penis with no unneeded surgery, I am happy to confirm I have made it to 47 with no hygiene problems.

Can't comment on whether your sex life is worse being circumsized as I have nothing to compare it to - but I had read that sensitivity is reduced.

Too much is done because of 'culture' in my view.

From 56% in 2006 to 32.5% in 2009 so lower now

That sounded very low to me, so looked it up. Found it varies massively by region, but in 2010 it was 58% of newborn boys were circumcised according to CDC figures.

Across the 32-year period from 1979 through 2010, the national rate of newborn circumcision declined 10% overall, from 64.5% to 58.3%

The drop is mostly due to Hispanic immigration, as this isn’t a thing in their culture. White/Black/Jewish Americans still get it routinely done.

It’s not a massive concern, just something I hope DC doesn’t resent me for later on! Of course, if we stay here it’s obviously not a concern (and my personal preference for a cut penis is not a good enough reason to put him through this)

Would they be happy with a symbolic blood drop OP? I am technically Jewish, but dad not so we didn't do much cultural stuff, but for some reason my Mum got really exercised that my boys should be done. Was a right faff and I think it's because my grandad escaped from the Nazis and if my boys weren't 'made Jewish' (mother's phrase not mine) then Hitler would have won. Sometimes things run deeper than we realise.

if my boys weren't 'made Jewish' (mother's phrase not mine) then Hitler would have won. Sometimes things run deeper than we realise.

And there you go why these topics could be deeply sensitive and the approach is all that matters.

A simple: “can we let him be since he is a child now and doesn’t have a responsibility towards faith, and then we can let him choose when he hits puberty what he wanted if he decides to adhere to the teachings?”.

The answer could be no. But you still get to make that last call without looking disrespectful and then starting this whole other debate about whether there is culture clash.

@LifeIsToughMate

It's nothing to do with culture clash. It's about the lack of consent from the person having a piece of their body removed. It's being done in the name of a religion they may not choose to follow. What's so wrong with letting them choose when they are able to give informed consent?

Which culture is that?! Certainly never happened when my boys were done.

OP, I’m sorry a lot of pp here are disrespecting your DH’s heritage.

I expect you would be making a small stand? Or do you expect him to be standing up for you to make sure everyone respects your conclusions while you are exempt ?

What's so wrong with letting them choose when they are able to give informed consent?

If you read my previous explanation you would find that I had answered your question.

Wait until he is 18 and then he can decide.

How is this still allowed? Even tail docking of dogs is banned.

Which culture is that?! Certainly never happened when my boys were done.

Ignore her she is just desperate for scoring points yet has no real logic to share.

I reported.

@LifeIsToughMate

I read your earlier post. You're approaching it from the perspective of mother and father being from different cultures, but you completely ignore the child, who is the most important person in the discussion and also the most vulnerable.

You said "don’t impose your thinking on others" but choosing to remove a part of your child's body is imposing your thinking on the child. And it's irreversible!

So again, what's so wrong with letting them choose when they are able to give informed consent?

Male genital mutilation = Female genital mutilation.

Both are child abuse. Both are equally indefensible.

One is, rightly, a criminal offence. The other is not due to pandering to backward, barbaric religious and cultural practices.

*I read your earlier post. You're approaching it from the perspective of mother and father being from different cultures, but you completely ignore the child, who is the most important person in the discussion and also the most vulnerable.

You said "don’t impose your thinking on others" but choosing to remove a part of your child's body is imposing your thinking on the child. And it's irreversible!

So again, what's so wrong with letting them choose when they are able to give informed consent?*

So you are recruiting this lady to use her marriage and child as a tool for activism to change an entire cultural understanding about a topic that’s been debated to death?

Who are you helping this way other than yourself? Certainly not her child who now considers this multicultural family his home.

I gave her a reasonable “respectful” argument which gets the child out of the “imposed” corcumcision until they make that choice themselves. And in fact an approach that will work for many of her cultural differences with DH and his family without being so dramatic and inviting tension. So again, read my post.

OP wasn’t asking anyone here about how to start a campaign to change her DH and his family’s perspective before her son is born. That’s crossing many boundaries which clearly were not in her views and screams superiority complex.her limits is what applies to her child and her home and herself... a multicultural home of her choice. Which I hope she will learn to see the beauty of and celebrate differences, while maintaining her position on what she believes works for her.

I get it you want to start a debate about whether those circumcising are barbaric or illogical or stupid. But I’m sorry I didn’t post on here to join that debate, I came here to tell a lady who knew the culture she married into and happily had a child, about My perspective on how to approach it successfully without compromising her own beliefs.

I am also sure that her DH probably has a lot of things to say about her heritage. The approach won’t be to go heads on make her sound barbaric and stupid... because to many people outside that culture I’m sure there is that perspective too on many
Aspects.

This is not a battle ground, this is someone’s peaceful home, and a child’s nest.

Bold fail

@LifeIsToughMate

I apologise, I can see that I probably come across as bullish, insensitive and without direct experience of the situation. I can also see that you are giving respectful and sensitive advice to the OP.

I continue to stand by the things I have said, but I concede this may not be the best forum for such a discussion.

However, there is no real compromise in this situation. It's a binary choice and therefore one party will need to concede.

I'm stepping away from the keyboard now.

There's no way I would allow my son to be mutilated in this way. No way.

@LifeIsToughMate I will not be approaching it in anyway which will cause offence or disrespect their culture in anyway. This is my husband and his family who is also my family and I love them dearly. I simply do not feel comfortable. And have said that when DS is old enough I would like to leave the decision for him to make. I am trying to make a stand without causing an argument or upsetting home life. But the final answer is no DS will not be circumcised, and that will be respectfully explained to my DH's family.

Things I believe from when I researched this a while ago that you might want to check out to see how your feel about them;

The body keeps the score, and forced trauma to the penis at such a very young age is never forgotten in the body.

It adversely affects sexual pleasure. All those nerve endings densely packed in a small area removed. The desensitisation of the head of the penis knocking around on the underwear.

It is usual for the scab to be pulled away, repeatedly, when changing baby's nappy. Imagine the repeated agony.

It's common for the procedure to be done without sufficient anaesthetic.

I consider it barbaric and would be a hard no.

@Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld It definitely happens in New York with awful consequences. NY mayor Bill Di Blasio released a statement concerning the practice. Utterly horrifying reading www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170309/borough-park/neonatal-herpes-infection-ritual-jewish-circumcision-orthodox-mohel/

Which culture is that?! Certainly never happened when my boys were done

While I didn't make the comment that led to this, that poster isn't lying.
There an episode of Andrew zimmern, bizzare foods where he goes to a circumcision ritual where the blood is sucked and the grandfather eats the foreskin
Absolutely vile, it's the one episode I turned away from. I can't remember if it was Jewish or African though

Circumcision is abuse in my eyes and should never be done unless a Dr says it's needed for health reasons, under anesthetic.
Vanity or religion is not a valid reason

THEsonofaBITCH

You come across as very militant in your apparent determination for baby boys to be mutilated at will - it seems very strange, and not a little creepy.

Whether it is comparable with FGM or not (and I don't see how the principle, when not done out of genuine medical necessity, could possibly be seen as different, regardless of the level and severity of mutilation), why is one of them so very wrong and the other such a great idea to be actively encouraged?

I'm not saying you personally (I have no way of knowing your own views), but it's the equivalent of saying that, because the majority of DV victims are female, and the consequences for them almost always more severe, that must logically mean that, whenever any man gets beaten up for a partner (male or female), it is of absolutely no concern and nothing to care about. In fact, going on your apparent pro-circ enthusiasm, a more realistic equivalent (which I'm not suggesting for a minute that you would agree with) would be that it's actually a GOOD thing for men to get beaten up and it should happen much more routinely in relationships.

Sex is irrelevant here - it comes down to whether you believe in bodily autonomy or you believe it acceptable that a stronger person can always dictate what they do to a weaker person's body for no reason other than that they wanted to.