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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Circumcision

606 replies

muma19 · 20/03/2019 15:54

DP wants DS circumcised however I don't. I also have MIL getting involved and pressuring me. What do I do? I want to be fair to my partner but I really don't want him veg for circumcised. HELP!!!!

OP posts:
Bicyclethief · 22/03/2019 08:42

However OP, as a word of advice, I think we all know what posting on Mumsnet for advice on circumcision was going to look like. This won’t be the first time you will have issue with your in laws culture that you need to learn how to handle in a way that doesn’t create tension..*

Patronising

So I don’t feel he deserved the amount of disrespect that you allowed to happen on this thread

How dare you.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 22/03/2019 10:17

So bare in mind that for the future, you need to find out how to tackle cultural things from a source that you both find respectable and has some awareness of both sides.

Would you be saying the same if they had a daughter and either or both parents were originally from a culture that practised FGM, but were now living in the UK, though? (I don't know if the OP is in the UK, but am assuming it's another 'western' country if not).

Cultural traditions that don't harm other people can and do often travel well, but when they do cause harm to another person, especially a helpless child, the law of the country where they are now living takes precedence - and the moral beliefs of the majority are not to simply be brushed aside as of no relevance at all.

If an adult man decides, without pressure or coercion, that he wants to be circumcised for ANY reason whatsoever, then nobody would have any issues with him having it done.

It's a bit like marriage - an adult is free to choose to marry (almost) any other single adult, however unsavoury that other adult may appear to other people; but children cannot legally marry, even if they themselves genuinely believe that they want to. Similarly, nobody of any age can legally be forced to marry against their will.

I understand that different nationalities and cultures have different moral stances on certain issues. For example, people in the UK are often horrified by people in France eating horse meat and Koreans eating dog meat; and yet countless millions of people in India would be horrified at many of us in the UK happily eating beef.

For the record, I believe that this works both ways and I have no time or tolerance whatsoever for British people who go to live in a different country and then take personal offence at Spaniards being unable or unwilling to speak any language other than Spanish, whilst in Spain.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 22/03/2019 11:04

I don’t feel he deserved the amount of disrespect that you allowed to happen on this thread

I don't think you understand the strength of feeling that many people (in the UK at least) have at the suggestion of an adult deciding to cut off part of a baby's body for no valid medical reason.

Also, I don't know if you're aware, but this is a public forum and the person who starts a thread has no power or control over what other people subsequently choose to contribute to their thread, so in no way did she 'allow' any perceived disrespect. The only way she could possibly have avoided the potential for this believed 'disrespect' of her husband to be expressed would be if she, and maybe all other women, were never allowed to post anything on the internet. I'm sure you wouldn't want that - that WOULD indeed be disrespectful and outrageous in the extreme.

Moreover, why are you making it about her husband. The primary concern of almost all posters is for a baby boy whose lifelong health and well-being are being potentially put in jeopardy by certain members of his family.

I know you'll consider it a ridiculous question on my part, but what reaction would you have to a man wanting to punch his wife repeatedly on a daily basis because he somehow thought that permanent bruises looked nicer? What if it was your son-in-law wanting to batter your daughter? Even if he claimed it was part of his culture? Would you disrespect him by even daring to raise the subject with others and asking if it was something that you should be allowed to question?

There are many people worldwide who have it in their heads that all Muslims somehow present a clear and direct threat to their own perceived 'culture'. Some of these will want to enter into genuine reasoned debate (in as far as they're capable), which I personally am in favour of for ANY SUBJECT AT ALL as I object on principle to the shutting down of adults who wish to respectfully discuss their beliefs and opinions on controversial matters. In some such cases, this serves to allow these people to expose themselves to the world at large as complete idiots, which is also their right to do.

However, as we are all sadly aware, there are some disgusting creatures who are unwilling or unable to do this and will resort to threatening, aggressive hatred, violence and murder to make their perceived 'point' and, in their own tiny minds, to attempt to 'protect' their white/western supremacist 'culture'

Do you believe that people who speak out against this and the authorities imprisoning such criminals are showing them an unacceptable amount of disrespect?

To reiterate, adults choosing irreversible body modification/mutilation for themselves is absolutely fine and their choice is to be respected. (Having said this, though, I believe a man has just now been charged for assisting consenting adults in modifying/mutilating their own bodies.)

When the same is done to a helpless child, people WILL speak out against it - it's not a case of disrespect, it's speaking up on behalf of a vulnerable person who is unable to do so themselves.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 22/03/2019 11:35

Scientific research shows that those without an appendix are much less likely to get appendicitis. And those without tonsils never get tonsillitis!

A PP mentioned earlier in the thread that those without appendix (sp?) dont get appendicitis, people who have nad their hearts removed dont have heart attacks either and trying to compare that to mutilating your baby's genitals is disingenuous.

Why is the Abrahamic god so interested in male childrens genitals? Absolutely disgusting its a barbaric ritual that needs ending

WisdomOfCrowds · 22/03/2019 11:52

Yeh, I'm pretty happy to disrespect any individual, culture, or religion that advocates something I find this abhorrent. I do not believe those are opinions that deserve respect. This isn't a "no right answer and everyone's entitled to their beliefs" situation for me. I oppose circumcision in the same way that I would oppose someone who's culture/ religion told them to beat their children. I will openly and vocally "disrespect" all perpetrators of child abuse until it sinks in that it's not OK.

LeesPostersAreInFrames · 22/03/2019 12:03

My heart bleeds for the man who (hypothetically with no evidence) feels disrespected because strangers agree with his wife who doesn't want her baby's genitals to be chopped up.

.... oh no wait, it doesn't.

samG76 · 22/03/2019 12:06

Wisdom - what form this this disrespect take, and how do you oppose it? Do you take it up with Muslim/Jewish/African friends, or does it prevent you from having such friendships? I suspect it is just virtue signalling....

WisdomOfCrowds · 22/03/2019 12:26

Yes, it prevents me from having friendships with those people. And yes I have taken it up with people who think its OK. I'm not out hurling abuse at anyone if that's what you're asking, but I'm quite open that I think it's child abuse, and if they find that disrespectful then so be it. I'm not interested in catching my flies with honey on this one, and I will have no friends who abuse their children for any reason, much less try to excuse it on cultural/ religious grounds. I hope that the OP makes a success of her family life, but I personally would never have married anyone who held pro-circumcision views.

Darayan20 · 22/03/2019 12:31

Why if it is important for him it's his son as much it's yours and nothing wrong with circumcision my son had it when he was 8 days and I don't regret it I changed his nappies as usual he didn't seem to be in pain 3 days he was all good and yes it is cleaner

gamerchick · 22/03/2019 12:35

The one who doesn't want to mutilate trump's the one who does.

Just don't be lazy in teaching them how to clean although how you can tell if it's cleaner in a baby is beyond me.

dementedpixie · 22/03/2019 12:38

Ok the child belongs to both of them. They still shouldn't get a say in cutting bits of someone else's body. The child has not given consent over something that is being done to their body

Fakeflowersandlemonade · 22/03/2019 12:39

We have a rule in our family regarding medical issues and the children. If we both don't agree then it dosnt happen. We both know that if we made the other parent 'give in' and something went wrong then there is no going back from that.

Darayan20 · 22/03/2019 13:47

I don't understand why you making such a big deal out of this it's nothing bad it can only be good for the kid and there is no risk I don't know but you should of discuss it before even having kids and if not agreed then not meant to have kids together

JacquesHammer · 22/03/2019 13:51

it's nothing bad it can only be good for the kid and there is no risk

There is always a risk with any surgical procedure.

Darayan20 · 22/03/2019 14:04

It's done by laser without anaesthetic anyway just saying that my son had it and didn't had any problems my husband wanted it and we discussed it before deciding to have kids and I don't regret doing

user1480880826 · 22/03/2019 14:13

It’s child abuse.

The sooner we start calling it Male Genital Mutilation the better.

samG76 · 22/03/2019 14:13

Wisdom - do you think you might be becoming a bit obsessed with this whole thing? Not on the marriage front - you have to agree on these things, and of course I would never have married anyone who disagreed with circ. But while I know and respect lots of vegetarians, for example, if they told me that they weren't friendly with anyone who eats meat, I'd think they were a bit unhinged.

And, practically speaking, at what point do you ask someone if their their sons have been snipped, so that you know whether to be friends with them?

icannotremember · 22/03/2019 14:28

it's nothing bad it can only be good for the kid and there is no risk

Well, that's a load of crap. There are always risks. There are many men who are very unhappy that their parents decided to have part of their body removed.

my son had it and didn't had any problems my husband wanted it and we discussed it before deciding to have kids and I don't regret doing

What if your son grows up wishing that his parent's hadn't decided to unnecessarily have part of his penis removed? Who cares whether or not you regret it? It's not your body, is it?

ittakes2 · 22/03/2019 14:51

Tell him that in this day and age his son will be the minority in the change room or in relationships with a circumicised penis - does he really want his son to feel this way? Let him make the choice when he is old enough. There have also been horror stories about the complications.

Blooto · 22/03/2019 14:59

All these people saying it's cleaner... does that mean if I cut off my lips I'll never have to brush my teeth again!?
What a ridiculous argument! I'd hate to think about how bad your personal hygiene is if you're unable to wash underneath/behind such a formidable barrier as a foreskin without resorting to surgically removing it.

breeze44 · 22/03/2019 15:13

I don't understand the washing argument. Even if you retract the foreskin, you wouldn't be able to wash the underside of the foreskin. Or am I missing something?

NunoGoncalves · 22/03/2019 15:22

Or am I missing something?

When you pull a foreskin all the way back, where do you think the "underside" of the foreskin is?

LeesPostersAreInFrames · 22/03/2019 15:35

Whereas having no foreskin, so that dirt and germs can get straight to the more delicate skin of the glans and near to/up the urethra more easily sound like a clucking delight Hmm

JAPAB · 22/03/2019 15:35

No risk? What about loss of sensitivity/feeling?

sagradafamiliar · 22/03/2019 16:12

I'm not sure you can compare needlessly lobbing off a part of your kid's anatomy without their consent to people choosing not to eat meat, sam.