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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Circumcision

606 replies

muma19 · 20/03/2019 15:54

DP wants DS circumcised however I don't. I also have MIL getting involved and pressuring me. What do I do? I want to be fair to my partner but I really don't want him veg for circumcised. HELP!!!!

OP posts:
samG76 · 22/03/2019 16:26

Sagrad - if you believe that meat is murder you might well think it's worse. I just find it bizarre that people are actually not prepared to associate with Jews/muslims/Africans/Koreans/Americans etc, for this reason...

sagradafamiliar · 22/03/2019 16:40

I eat a vegan diet and I don't think it's worse. Human males take priority over animals for me especially my own which is why the thought of snipping at either of my sons robbing them of body parts, never crossed my mind.
Give over being inflammatory, there are many people in the continents/countries/faiths you listed who feel the exact same way and even if there weren't, people can be friends with who they like.

Mississippilessly · 22/03/2019 17:09

*It's done with lasers'

Always a great start to a sentence about an infant's genitals.

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 17:15

If an adult man decides, without pressure or coercion, that he wants to be circumcised for ANY reason whatsoever, then nobody would have any issues with him having it done

Yes they will webuiltthis yes they will and I have said this twice already, the NHS will not refer for unnecessary surgery. You will be refused as a man asking for unnecessary surgery.

The only time an adult male will get a circumcision is on medical grounds as essential.

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 17:31

So best to have surgery because of washing?

Is that the only argument for cutting body parts? On that basis we should have our arse cheeks sliced off,and women all their vulval lips and folds cut off, how stupid.

Is this the only argument for cutting a baby boy?

Its ok its only 3 days!!!! On top of the pain of removing it and having a needle inserted into your penis when its tiny and the needle is massive. Goodness me what strange arguments fucking sick excuses

No-one has any right to mutilate their DC no parent has that 'right'

It's a 'wrong' not a 'right' and babies should be taken from adults who think it's right in to do this. In Africa girls are being removed from families who are going to cut them.

It's wrong, wrong, wrong

Bicyclethief · 22/03/2019 18:32

Smotheroffive I think it might actually be possible to outlaw FMG since there's no religious grounds for doing it but as circumcision is a religious requirement it might take longer to legislate against it.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 22/03/2019 18:43

I agree smother. Why are people so hung up on the cleanliness of genitalia as compared to other parts of the body? So much so they are lobbing of parts. Sex organs aren’t dirty.

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 20:03

Bicyclethief FMG is outlawed!!! No-one is allowed under law to go round attacking others bodies, baby or even animal. You can't even do a procedure on your own ddog. 'Religion' is not excuse. It's about as robust as 'washing'

Alsohuman · 22/03/2019 20:10

Dismissing other people's religious faith as an excuse is utterly insulting. The contempt for deeply and sincerely held beliefs here is truly shocking.

ethelfleda · 22/03/2019 20:15

I would hold contempt for any belief, religious or otherwise, if it involved mutililating other Hunan beings (especially babies) without their consent.

I have utmost respect for people’s faith... until it compels them to hurt others anyway!

ethelfleda · 22/03/2019 20:15

Don’t know what Hunan means??

Bicyclethief · 22/03/2019 20:15

Smotheroffive FMG is outlawed!!! No-one is allowed under law to go round attacking others bodies, baby or even animal. You can't even do a procedure on your own ddog. 'Religion' is not excuse. It's about as robust as 'washing'

Sorry, yes it is. What I was trying to say it's going to be harder to outlaw circumcision because it's a religious requirement.

I am totally against circumcision just to clarify.

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 20:16

Sacrificial lamb an all that...all in the name of religion...why is that shocking?

What's shocking is the horrors done all in the name of religion, by what right and flagrant decil may care attitude

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 20:17

*flagrant devil may care attitude

Bicyclethief · 22/03/2019 20:18

Also human Dismissing other people's religious faith as an excuse is utterly insulting. The contempt for deeply and sincerely held beliefs here is truly shocking.

My belief that circumcision is cruel and should be against the law is also sincerely and deeply held belief.

I find it utterly offensive as a human being that people these to defenceless babies.

I feel insulted too.

Alsohuman · 22/03/2019 20:19

I wouldn't have my son circumcised but that's easy for me to say because I don't have religious beliefs that require it. I don't imagine any Jewish or Muslim mother finds it easy either. Hysterical cries of horror probably don't help.

WisdomOfCrowds · 22/03/2019 20:23

do you think you might be becoming a bit obsessed with this whole thing?

I feel strongly about it, if that's what you mean by "obsessed". I won't apologise for wanting to protect children.

But while I know and respect lots of vegetarians, for example, if they told me that they weren't friendly with anyone who eats meat, I'd think they were a bit unhinged.

We're talking about something which a lot of posters on this thread, myself included, consider to be violence against a child. So leaving aside the fact that you disagree, if you knew someone who had committed something you consider an act of violence against a child, would you still be friends with them? If a man beats his child, do you think people who won't associate with him are "obsessed" and "unhinged"? Is there any atrocity someone could commit in the name of culture or religion that you would refuse to associate with them over? I'm sure you have a line, same as everyone - it's just drawn in a different place to mine.

And, practically speaking, at what point do you ask someone if their their sons have been snipped, so that you know whether to be friends with them?

The same way that most people discover things about their friends, surely? I make friends with people based on a shared connection and at some point the friendship deepens and we discuss our beliefs and values. If they align then our friendship generally continues, if they don't then sometimes it doesn't. I think that's a pretty normal way to run a friendship - why would you continue a friendship with someone who believed and was willing to act on a belief that you find horrendous?

I just find it bizarre that people are actually not prepared to associate with Jews/muslims/Africans/Koreans/Americans etc, for this reason...

I think that's quite a disingenuous way to phrase that. I don't refuse "to associate with Jews" etc. I have Jewish/ African/ American friends etc who have told me they wouldn't circumcise. Not everyone who comes from a certain culture will follow the cultural norm, and most people cherry pick their religious beliefs and/or contort what their holy books actually say to make it fit the way they want to live. Just look at all the Christian apologists falling over themselves to deny that the bible endorses slavery. So no, I don't refuse to associate with people who abuse children because of their culture or religion etc. I refuse to associate with people who abuse children because they abuse children and think that we should all just nod and smile "because culture". Would you associate with someone who believed homosexuality should be punishable by death? Or who thought it was acceptable to marry a child? Or to kill their children if they thought they were a witch? These are things that people are doing and using their culture/ religion to justify. Opposing that and saying you wouldn't keep company with anyone who could do that is not the same as refusing to associate with anyone from those cultures.

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 20:24

Us 'hysterical' women huh?!

Same old same old.

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 20:39

'Prepared to associate' a dangerous statement to make at people, very careless wording or deliver goady and dangerous.

You are straying into racist and anti-semitic conversation.

I think thats what this is about. Screw off.

BoneyBackJefferson · 22/03/2019 20:41

Alsohuman

Hysterical cries of horror probably don't help.

No "hysterical cries of horror" from me, just a scientifically held truth that circumcision is not required and if the person with the penis holds the practice to be so important to them and their religion, they will do it when they can fully consent to the operation.

Alsohuman · 22/03/2019 20:42

And you think accusing people of barbaric child abuse because they observe their religion isn't racist or anti Semitic?

sagradafamiliar · 22/03/2019 20:45

Well bloody said wisdom.

Nice try, human.

Rottencooking · 22/03/2019 20:49

@Alsohuman What utter bollocks. No. Though in any case I'd rather be either of those two things before a child abuser. Hth.

Smotheroffive · 22/03/2019 20:50

I don't consider the two related, you are having that convo by yourself human you can assert it all you like, doesn't make it true.

You are aligning those two, I'm not.

I only talking about child brutality, other brought religion into it as an excuse for said brutality

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 23/03/2019 00:14

Why if it is important for him it's his son as much it's yours and nothing wrong with circumcision my son had it when he was 8 days and I don't regret it I changed his nappies as usual he didn't seem to be in pain 3 days he was all good and yes it is cleaner

You do understand, don’t you, that the primary purpose of a foreskin and its tens of thousands of sensitive nerve endings isn't really relevant until the owner is an adult? Unless done appallingly badly, a circumcision won’t cause chronic pain – in fact, it’s the lack of feeling and sensation during normal adult activity that circumcision directly causes which is the primary problem with it. Cutting off a newborn baby’s legs wouldn't make them any less able to walk - as a baby - the problems would come later when the older child can never do what other people who didn't have their legs cut off as newborns routinely can do.

As to the strange belief and assertion that it’s somehow cleaner, a baby boy’s foreskin does not retract for some years, so keeping the exterior clean is all that’s necessary. If a baby’s penis head is ‘dirty’ because of a natural covering that is supposed to be there then your heart, lungs and kidney must also be disgustingly and unhygienically dirty – unless you regularly have yourself cut open so that they can be cleaned too. The whole point of skin is that it is a protective barrier to what’s underneath – the outside of it is exposed to dirt and needs to be kept clean, but the inside is sealed and protected.

It's done by laser without anaesthetic anyway just saying that my son had it and didn't had any problems my husband wanted it and we discussed it before deciding to have kids and I don't regret doing

For you to be able to state that your son didn't have any problems, I presume that he must now be grown up and unusually frank when talking about his sex life with his mother in comparison to the vast majority of men. Even so, now that he’s grown up, he will still never be able to know what sex would have been like had his body not been mutilated long before he became sexually active. It’s the easiest thing in the world for you and your husband to not regret doing it – you aren't the ones who have to live with it for the rest of your lives.

If an adult man decides, without pressure or coercion, that he wants to be circumcised for ANY reason whatsoever, then nobody would have any issues with him having it done

Yes they will webuiltthis yes they will and I have said this twice already, the NHS will not refer for unnecessary surgery. You will be refused as a man asking for unnecessary surgery.

The only time an adult male will get a circumcision is on medical grounds as essential.

I was meaning in principle, if an adult man makes his own decision and arrangements to have a non-medically-necessary but nevertheless professionally-done circumcision, it is nobody else’s business. Of course, the NHS would neither sanction nor pay for it - I wasn't suggesting or thinking that this would be a factor.