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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To let you know thought crime is now a thing

317 replies

CalliopeMeansMusic · 20/03/2019 09:41

Apologies for the odious DM link, but this has really chilled me.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6827459/Catholic-journalist-questioned-caution-police-misgendering-someones-daughter.html

A woman is being investigated by police and faces a two year jail sentence for allegedly misgendering Jackie Green during a tweet. What has the world become when we cannot state simple, biological facts without fear of prosecution? And why do the beliefs of the mother and daughter (that they are now living as a member of the opposite sex) trump the beliefs of Caroline Farrow? I am all for protecting vulnerable people from hate crimes, but this is not a hate crime, and makes a mockery of people facing real discrimination and fear.

On the plus side, I may move to Surrey; clearly its ridiculously safe if the police have all that time to investigate this!

OP posts:

sackrifice · 22/03/2019 13:31

Sorry I had a busy morning.

Have we found out what was unlawful about the tweets yet?

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 15:03

Have we found out what was unlawful about the tweets yet?

Looks like you missed my earlier post, so I'll post it again for you.
Tweet C - son. Assume that'll be the misgendering bit referred to then.
How long do you go on ignoring them? 15 years old or whatever, been telling you for years.
"No you're not, you're a boy, you're wrong"
type thing?
You're not them.
Tweet D. Publicly accusing of child abuse.
Two right there. It's not hard to see if you can see

That'll probably be what it got reported for, if they have been targeted at an individual.
As someone said earlier it gets reported, if it is found to be deemed hateful or harassing it will be dealt with as a hate crime.

AstonishedFemalePersonator · 22/03/2019 15:04

Have we found out what was unlawful about the tweets yet?

Looks like you missed my earlier post, so I'll post it again for you.
Tweet C - son. Assume that'll be the misgendering bit referred to then.

Misgendering someone is not a crime.

Next lie?

AstonishedFemalePersonator · 22/03/2019 15:05

Tweet D. Publicly accusing of child abuse.

Also not illegal.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 22/03/2019 15:05

Also, Susie has referred to Jackie as her son when speaking about him pre-op. So along with not being a crime it’s something she herself has done.

AstonishedFemalePersonator · 22/03/2019 15:06

Tweet D = I think it’s time everyone called out Susie Green and Mermaids policy out for what it is. Child abuse.

Calling a policy child abuse is not illegal.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 15:06

Misgendering someone is not a crime

No, it's not, you're right. It could be a genuine mistake. Yet again though, it's INTENT. If someone is intent on keeping misgendering and tipping into harassment, then it is.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 22/03/2019 15:06

If having your child castrated isn’t abuse then why is it illegal in the UK?

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 22/03/2019 15:07

Caroline does not believe that Jackie is female, and she can’t be forced into that belief.

AstonishedFemalePersonator · 22/03/2019 15:07

Two lies. I wonder how tweets A and B will also be labelled as illegal.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 15:13

Caroline does not believe that Jackie is female, and she can’t be forced into that belief.

Of course you can't be forced into that belief. You believe what you believe.
That's not the same as any written targetted tweets on social media though. and that's the point people are refusing to get.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 15:24

LimeKiwi who is the 'target' of Caroline's tweets? Here is a hint it is not Susie Green's child.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 15:30

LimeKiwi who is the 'target' of Caroline's tweets? Here is a hint it is not Susie Green's child

Tweets that get sent to a person accusing them of child abuse, deliberately misgendering her daughter even though they know she's a transwoman, the target would be the recipient of said tweets obviously.
All I'm saying is that I can see why they were reported, and people are in agreement that if tweets gets reported and deemed hate crime, it can then go further. Or not. Depending on what the outcome of the report is.
If there's nothing unlawful, all good and dandy.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/03/2019 15:37

I can see why they were reported,

That's like reporting me to the police for any one of the comments I made about you not being clear, upthread. Or if I were to say you are [insert something unpleasant like "a fuckwit" here] and your response was to call the police to get them to decide whether or not I had done or thought somethnig illegal.

Total waste of time, at best. Vexatious, in law, is possible.

Nobody has the right not to be offended! Thicker skin should grow over insults, that is part and parcel of growing up. All children, and many young adults these days,should learn the truth in "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"

AstonishedFemalePersonator · 22/03/2019 15:42

Yet again though, it's INTENT. If someone is intent on keeping misgendering and tipping into harassment, then it is.

Nice defence of thought crime. I noticed that that goes only one way, though, and it's always the GC who are accused and found guilty.

HellAndDegenerates · 22/03/2019 15:44

the target would be the recipient of said tweets obviously

So everyone then? Tweets were public after all.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 15:44

LimeKiwi as has already been explained, Susie Green is the CEO of the charity Mermaids and once again here is the tweet re child abuse:

I think it’s time everyone called out Susie Green and Mermaids policy out for what it is. Child abuse.

It is the policy of the charity and their figurehead, Susie Green, that is being described as child abuse.

What you are saying it that no-one can criticise a charity and figurehead of that charity that is driving a policy with which you fundamentally disagree?

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 15:45

That's like reporting me to the police for any one of the comments I made about you not being clear, upthread.

Not really, because that wouldn't have been a hate crime or even be slightly construed as one.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 15:48

So everyone then? Tweets were public after all

Well if you're going to look at it like that, then yes it could be seen as a bigger picture - why do people (in general) post tweets targeted at individuals to harass or belittle because of who they are?
Not only would it be targeted towards one person, as you say it's public so others could see and be affected too

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 15:50

Can I just clarify, the tweets weren't directed at her, as in her twitter name wasn't included. They were statements made about the head of a charity for children, and they are factual.

Also, Lime, do you think its ok to take a child out of this country for something that is illegal here? why do you think it is illegal if it is not child abuse?

HellAndDegenerates · 22/03/2019 15:51

why do people (in general) post tweets targeted at individuals to harass or belittle because of who they are?

Was CF being harassing or we she commenting on a public discussion of someone in the public eye and sharing her opinion on a public forum?

If i said,
"Teresa my is a scum sucking parasite that should have a cancer named after her"
Is that harassing her? Targeting her? Or sharing my opinion on a public figure in a public forum?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/03/2019 15:54

Not really, because that wouldn't have been a hate crime or even be slightly construed as one. But if I said, directly to you "Fuck off you twatting idiot" I would get deleted and probably banned from MN...

So there as a parallel!

Nothing in those tweets was a lie, nor was there anything factual that SG herself had not posted, been on telly saying, basing a charity on. The only issue was that SGs actions were criticised and identified as illegal activities, which they were (again I have no idea how she managed to get away with it!)

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 15:56

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you LimeKiwi there is no such crime as misgendering.

Further, the legal fiction that is a GRC is not available to children, it is only available to those over the age of 18. SRS is illegal on anyone under the age of 18 within the UK. At the time when Susie Green took her child to Thailand UK law states they were still male and therefore still to be referred to as SG's son. SG's child, despite the surgery and other medical interventions SG enabled still had to wait a further two years until they were 18 to apply for a GRC.

M3lon · 22/03/2019 16:00

yabvvvvu!

I came on here all excited to know how people could get arrested for things they only thought in the privacy of their own minds...

What a disappointment. I mean who knew you could get investigated for having potentially engaged in a deliberate attempt to whip up hate that you published on publicly accessible media? Well..everyone...duh!

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 16:01

potentially engaged in a deliberate attempt to whip up hate that you published on publicly accessible media? Well..everyone...duh!

no, a deliberate attempt to inform people of facts. You perceive safeguarding of children as hate, it is not.

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