AIBU to ask Leavers if this is what you voted for?

[longwayoff]

And if it is are you looking forward to 29th?

and now NO ONE is getting what they wanted.

Putin is.

If you're talking to me windows you'll find I voted remain.

Exactly, windows

Windowsareforcheaters

Of course remainers should have highlighted the boarders of NI it should have been a major part of their campaign as could so many other things.

Yes Remainers did call people who published that poster racist for the very good reason it was racist.

And the rest, but we are used to Some (just for rufus) remainers trying to rewrite history and making themselves the victims.

So blame leavers all you like, but some of the blame, almost 50%, has to go to those that have campaigned after the event and had their say in what has gone on, remainers, leavers, hard brexteers, civil servants etc.

Just remember when you point a finger at someone there are three pointing back at you.

Just remember when you point a finger at someone there are three pointing back at you.
So deep.

The remain campaign was abysmal.

However, leavers come on thread after thread insisting that they researched in depth, that they are not stupid and they knew what would happen. Leavers insist they should not be patronised and they understood the complexities. Leavers come on thread after thread saying they would vote the same because this is what they want. The ' Bus' has no impact on any MN leave voter because they did their own research.

I take them at their word. Leavers understood, they researched, they considered the options.

If this is the case they must take responsibility for their decisions to vote for this nonsense.

Windowsareforcheaters

I take responsibility for my vote. I don't take responsibility for those not doing their jobs.

I don't take responsibility for the ratifying of the referendum and then running away from the results

I take responsibility for the names that I have called others and don't blame it on the way that they voted.

I'm not going to take the blame for TM trying to get the same thing through parliament three times, I am not going to take responsibility for Bercow stopping her.

It's funny really because I voted remain for the status quo.

But the EU isn't going to remain static - it's evolving;
Germany wants to create a Federal Europe and other member countries such as Romania want to expand the EU -

Jan 2019 Romania’s EU presidency will push to improve the prospect of membership talks for Western Balkan countries Macedonia (FYROM) and Albania

the EU’s enlargement, which has barely progressed since Croatia joined in 2013, “is high on our agenda, we are the children of enlargement, we know very much the value of enlargement”.

www.euractiv.com/section/enlargement/interview/romanian-eu-presidency-to-push-western-balkans-case-minister-says/

No one can be blamed individually for specifics like the exact nature of the votes in Parliament and the actions of individuals.

The general point is that Brexit is a mess and this was entirely predictable. It was predicted by many.

Brexit had no plan. Ideas with no plans fail. There were no details in Brexit. If you voted for an idea with no detail behind it the mess that follows is your responsibility.

As I keep saying Brexit voters researched and researched I know this because they insist that is the case. Therefore they must have known we had no negotiators, no plan, no details, no back up option.

Clavinova have I explained the nature of federalism to you on a previous thread?

As all leavers are well informed you must understand that federalism means devolved power. If as you say Germany wants a Federal Europe that means they want power distributed away from the centre.

Do you think devolved power is a bad thing?

Windowsareforcheaters
No one can be blamed individually for specifics like the exact nature of the votes in Parliament and the actions of individuals.

Brexit had no plan. Ideas with no plans fail. There were no details in Brexit. If you voted for an idea with no detail behind it the mess that follows is your responsibility.

Make your mind up.

Que?

Im a staunch remainer. My parents voted leave for shit reasons.
If my children’s standard of living is affected by us leaving the EU. She will have no relationship with me or my kids again.
I’m disgusted by the things she has come out with about immigration since brexit was announced. Never mind the fact her own fucking grandchildren descend from European immigrants who did more for this country than she has ever done.

I’m angry, fucking angry at all this mess and uncertainty. For those who voted leave, then I sincerely hope that your lives go down the fucking shit pan post brexit and that you’ll spend every day regretting your decision.

BoneyBackJefferson for clarity.

You said

I'm not going to take the blame for TM trying to get the same thing through parliament three times, I am not going to take responsibility for Bercow stopping her

And I agreed you can not be held responsible for the specific detailed actions of others.

However, the general principal remains that Brexit is an entirely predictable mess and the state of the country at the moment is totally at the feet of those who voted for it.

Hell yes.

May's deal gets rejected, and the stupid "this house doesn't accept a no deal" is shown to be a direct descendant of cnut failing to turn back the tide.

The EU don't give us more time and we are forced into what we should have done in the first place.

Hell yes.

Brexit isn't a mess. We aren't "crashing out". The UK completely leaving the EU with no direct deal/tie in to the EU suits most of us. The EU will be begging to trade with us very quickly.

I am thinking of changing my username to GTF2019.

However, the general principal remains that Brexit is an entirely predictable mess and the state of the country at the moment is totally at the feet of those who voted for it.

And the principle remains that if the remain campaign had been better more would have voted for it.

And the principle remains that if the government hadn't blamed the EU for all the ills of the country since its (the EUs) conception.

And the principle remains that if the Media hadn't painted the EU as being the enemy for the last god knows how many years.

And the principle remains that if you want to go back far enough their is always someone else to blame for the mess that we are in know.

You and others want to go back two years subsequently erasing 24 months of what other people (remainers, leavers, etc.) have done.

BoneyBackJefferson the Remain campaign was a disaster but don't forget all the Brexit voters on MN didn't pay any attention to the campaigns- they did all the research themselves.

And as Gth1234 nicely demonstrates lots of Brexit supporters still support Brexit and are keen for a no deal. I don't need to go back two years to point the finger I can go back two posts.

likebeing in a club with my French/Spanish neighbours, Ilikethat there is oversight if my own government gets a bit power hungry, Ilikethat my family is made up of different nationalities and no one had to marry for a visa.

Well that’s the euro club for you 🤨.

Still a remainder despite this (really not liking the last bit).

Windowsareforcheaters

So because you can go back two posts you blame all leavers?

I'm fairly sure that you can go back through the thread and find leavers that are now remainers and remainers that are now leavers.

Once again @Rufus speaks the truth

Both leave and remain campaigns in 2016 were abysmal. But not sure why some people talk about the 350 million pounds on the bus. The people in that campaign are not really in a position to deliver that. Nigel Farage is irrelevant, he isn’t an MP for a start. And Boris and Gove are outnumbered by their Tory remain colleagues.
And Theresa May wasn’t a leaver herself, she was a remainer. Yet she’s the PM in charge of Brexit.It isn’t the fault of the 52% of people that voted to leave, it’s the politicians themselves.
We are also still part of the EU at this very point in time so presumably still paying the 350 million a week into the EU.
It’s an impossible task to deliver aBrexit that satisfies a majority. The majority of the men and women in the House of Commons voted to remain themselves, so getting a suitable deal to please them is some task. I presume some MPs would against any deal.
I thinks having some form of soft Brexit is the worst case of any scenario. Staying in the single market and customs union but leaving the EU seems crazy to me.
I also think a second referendum would throw up similar results so I can’t see how that would help. Many people will never vote again because of this utter shambles.

I apologise for the terrible grammar in my last post, blinking prediction text!

Just because 37% of the electorate voted for something that turned out to be a complete arsing shambles, that shouldn't put them off voting. People need to grow up and stop howling about how unfair everything is and how it is all someone else's fault.

I also think that taking no deal off the negotiation table is beyond stupid as well. A bit like going into a football match and leaving your best player on the sub bench.