AIBU to ask Leavers if this is what you voted for?

[longwayoff]

And if it is are you looking forward to 29th?

"Why would we want to veto? You still haven't answered this question."

I have answered this question, the implication of the leave campaign is that Turkey joining would be forced on us, it wouldn't. In fact we have been the biggest campaigners for Turkey's accession ( as we were with the Eastern European states).

Still trying to invert the argument, it doesn't work, the critisicm was that the leave campaign was racist in its implications of Turkey joining. Pointing out the factual context of such an even is hardly saying that reaminers don't want Turkey to join.

I odn't have you on speed dial, I just find your posts vacuous and lacking in critical thinking when you copy and paste from sources, without looking at credibility criteria, and use them as appeals to authority in order to back up your points.

It doesn't work.

theelements

Its certainly killing time

Im going out in about 15 minutes...wanna bet this is still going?

BorisBogtrotter
Sorry - I was washing my hair .

In fact we have been the biggest campaigners for Turkey's accession (as we were with the Eastern European states).

Indeed.

One final question for you Boris.

Going back to the BBC article;

The claim:Leave campaigners claim five countries:Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey will join the EU soon.

Reality Check verdict:The five countries are not going to join the EU any time soon and their admission to the EU-once they fulfil all the criteria-will be subject to a veto by the UK and all the other 27 existing EU countries.

Can you confirm - that there would be no legitimate reason for the UK government to veto accession for the countries listed by the BBC - Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey - once they fulfil all the criteria to join the EU?

Im going out in about 15 minutes...wanna bet this is still going?

It's like really bad conceptual performance art

Twisty, writhy dance

Recite, "I know you are, but what am I?"

Twisty, writhy dance

Chant, "I know you are, but what am I?"

Twisty, writhy dance

...

There would be no reason to veto it, however the veto would remain so no membership accession can be forced on us by the EU, as was the implication.

I don't see anyone saying that we should object if all conditions have been met.

What would your reasons be?

It's like really bad conceptual performance art

At least you don't have to pay for a ticket to watch.

theelements

Its reminding me of ds2, i used the wrong phrase in a discussion the other day and you should have seen his little eyes light up

i just adore that child

At least you don't have to pay for a ticket to watch

That is very true

BorisBogtrotter

Thank you for confirming that the UK government is unlikely to exercise its veto on accession - once Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey fulfil the criteria for joining the EU.

My DM did. She voted for Brexshit knowing we'd be forced into a long recession and believing it was better for the good of the country long-term. She doesn't give a shit about NI and thinks it'll resolve itself when we come out. Ditto the trade agreements. She thinks Juncker and Zimmerman are German and that the UK is being run by Germany. She hasn't so far ever mentioned immigration though. She's jumping up and down calling for a No Deal Brexit with absolutely no level of awareness of how this makes her look. It's embarrassing.

Clav, I don't quite know what point you are trying to make here.

Why is it a problem if these countries join if they meet the criteria? Second time of asking.

The point she seems to be trying to make - and failing dismally at - is that Remainers want to veto some countries joining and are therefore racists. Or something.

But UK won't have a veto because its in the process of throwing it overboard as it gallops off to independence so wtf?

*Afineexample
It was you who posted this a few pages back;

and more importantly because the UK (or any other member state) had an absolute veto that it could use if it didn't think Turkey (or any other state) should be a member of the EU*

If you quoted the whole post, it would be more helpful, but I will try to break it down simply for you.

. Leave campaign lied and said Turkey was one of the countries "next in line" to join EU

• I stated that this was not true as they did not meet criteria
• I also pointed out that all member states have a veto
• This was all checkable in 2016
• Some people did not bother to check (this, or any other claim)
• The veto is not even relevant as Turkey is nowhere near meeting conditions
• Should they be in the future, the veto will not be relevant

Pressed send too soon.
Veto will not be relevant means that nobody will really have a reason to veto (unless it's for some political reason like Greece with regards to Cyprus).
(It doesn't matter anyway, because we won't have a say soon!

I find these threads quite sad to read.

I really don't understand why posters resort to nasty name calling and accusing others of being stupid, etc, just because their views don't align with yours. It really is most unpleasant.

I'm appalled at the infighting within the UK government. Most MPs only seem to care about their own agenda, rather than what their constituents voted for. They've all made themselves look pretty childish and inept.
The EU are showing themselves up to be arrogant and controlling bullies, trying to make it so that the UK is too frightened to leave.
I originally voted remain, but now I'm not so sure how, or if, I'd vote, as I'm uncomfortable with the attitudes this referendum has unearthed.

The self righteousness and better-than-thou attitude of some remain voters doesn't do the rest of us any favours.

I really dislike this attitude that those who voted leave, just did so because they're either too stupid to understand the implications, or racist, or both.

I think the worst thing about all of this though is the division and hatefulness it's caused on all sides. I'm not sure that'll ever recover.

notwotuknow - my biggest fear now is that the division and the "you were too thick to know what you were voting for " brigade are actually fuelling the rise of the far right.

People who voted for Brexit are reading some of the shit that the hard right groups are posting and liking and agreeing with it.

The petition (full of people who aren't on the register of electors, don't pay tax or live in this country) is fuelling that feeling as well. I am worried that if both groups decide to go out on Saturday to march or block roads etc that the far right will have a bloody field day.

The whole process went astray when all the MPs barring a few voted to trigger Article 50. if they felt so anti Brexit why did they do this?

I think that the government need to try to understand why so many voted leave, and should start to address their concerns.

I think many felt like they didn't have a voice, that no one cares about their lives, that it was worth voting leave in the hope of something better because they can't imagine it being any worse.

I'm also guessing many votes were more in protest against the government, and to have a chance to make their displeasure with the government known; to give them a kick up the backside. To say "You will hear me".

Rather than listening though, and trying to reassure or implement things that would help, they're instead ignoring them even more (in a "as they don't know any better" or "we know what's best" kind of way).

I don't know the answer though, and I've no idea any longer where we'd be better off, in say 10 years time. [Given the damage done over the last few years].

I don't think the WA is a good deal though. I think if there's another vote, either just MPs or public, it should only be between no deal or revoke.
Atm, I've honestly no idea how (or if) I'd vote.

Party wise, I think that they're all as bad as one another. I think we should implement proportional representation and our government should be forced to work together for the good of our country and all its people, rather than what's best for their career or their Party.

I don't really know much about politics though, so what do I know about what's best.

@Notwotuknow I agree 100% with you.

That's my fear too, mummymeister. I live in an area in which the majority voted leave and from what I hear when out and about or when people watching in cafes, etc, people are sick of it all, and sick of being made to feel even more unlistened too, and being called stupid on top of it all.
It's fuelling hate and resentment on all sides, and subsequently allowing these groups to get a leg in the door, so to speak.

Of course people who voted to leave the EU for reasons that were nothing to do with the EU are going to feel unlistened to.

However this is the fault of the leave campaign for promising things that it was never in the power of them or the EU to deliver.

Thanks, badlydrawnperson, I tend to keep out of these discussions as I don't know much about politics, but the meanness disturbs me.

One poster on a different thread was actively hoping (quite gleefully) that those who voted leave would suffer immensely if we leave (they were talking about lack of meds and hoping it would affect leavers most, etc).
I just don't understand that mindset, and seeing so much of it lately worries me about the direction the world is going in.

Missed a bit there .....the meanness of some posters* disturbs me.

I just don't understand that mindset, and seeing so much of it lately worries me about the direction the world is going in.

I think it’s pretty simple to understand personally, when lots of leavers cast their votes seemingly unconcerned about people’s jobs and in the case of those living in NI, their personal security.

While I place most of the blame at Cameron’s door, people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions. They weren’t voting for the fucking X factor.

One poster on a different thread was actively hoping (quite gleefully) that those who voted leave would suffer immensely if we leave (they were talking about lack of meds and hoping it would affect leavers most, etc). I just don't understand that mindset, and seeing so much of it lately worries me about the direction the world is going in.
I don't agree with that mindset, but it might help you to understand if you think that the people who did not vote for this shitstorm are nevertheless going to be affected by it. For some, this includes access to life-saving medication. If you were unable to get meds through no fault of your own, and had not been reassured by your doctor/pharmacist that you will continue to have access to them post-Brexit, it's surely not impossible to see why you might start to think the people who wanted Brexit should be first in line to feel its impact.