Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this was racist?

158 replies

Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 13:50

DH and I visited in laws at the weekend. They'd recorded a rugby match and were watching it. I don't follow rugby, so I'm not sure who else was playing, but I know France was. The camera zoomed in on a French player who was potentially non-white (for the record, I'm not even entirely convinced on this, but he had dark hair and eyes, and a darker complexion than many white people would have). The conversation went as follows:

FIL: I wonder where that guy's from.
DH: Well he's playing for France, so the most likely option is France.
FIL: Well you don't look like that and come from France, usually.
DH: Why do you say that?
FIL: Well, lots of non-French players play for France. They let anyone in. One of their players is called Demba Bamba.
Me: (vaguely recalling hearing this name during a conversation in work) Right, but he's French, isn't he?
FIL: Well not with a name like that.
Me: But this guy on the TV could have been born and raised in France - how do you know he wasn't?
MIL: well, he might have been born and raised there, but looking at him I can tell he's really Arabic.

I didn't want to say too much and the conversation moved on after that, but I felt uncomfortable about it for the rest of the day.

AIBU to think that making trying to make a judgement about this guy by his skin tone (and the other player by his name) is actually racist? I mean, I understand being curious about someone's heritage, but surely bringing up race when it's not relevant does kind of cross a line into racist territory?

OP posts:
Godowneasy · 19/03/2019 14:52

@simmerflew
It's a fairly often claimed view on here. The same applies to the Brexit vote. It really annoys me!

minesthecutest · 19/03/2019 14:53

don't know if this has been said already and it's besides the poitn but a person can't the Arabic, they can be Arabian! or Arab. Arabic is a language

Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 14:55

@minesthecutest good point. I must admit, I hadn't even thought of that. Sorry if I caused any offence. Looking back, I can't remember the exact word she used, so it could be my mistake.

OP posts:
FriarTuck · 19/03/2019 14:57

I'll no doubt be flamed for this but I'm not sure if the father-in-law was being 'racist' as-such. It didn't sound like he was insulting the guy, just wondering about his heritage (i.e. where his ancestors where originally from).
This ^^. It's like saying that a short weedy white man with dark hair called Bob Smith can't be Icelandic because they're all huge, blonde and have names ending son. It's not really questioning that he's born somewhere else, it's just a way of saying that he doesn't match the usual stereotypes of that country and it's likely that he's got some non-Icelandic roots somewhere in his genes.

InnerCircle · 19/03/2019 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

pigsDOfly · 19/03/2019 14:59

Racism and strange attitudes to race have nothing to do with age, just with bigotry.

Membership of all the vile far right racists movements around at the moment are not confined to the elderly or retired. In fact looking at news footage after the terrible events in New Zealand when they showed marchers in one of these far right groups they seem to be predominately made up of young men.

Sayw · 19/03/2019 14:59

I've done similar in the dating world. You see a guy who's cute, but he's not white. Ask him where he's from, he says North London, so then you ask where is your ethnicity from (sometimes it's hard to tell from a pic). So they say a combination of countries or a specific country. To me it's just curiosity. Racist? No.
When someone asks where I'm from I say I'm from x country, living in X place. No biggy. It's just curiosity and conversation.

Wantmyflipflops · 19/03/2019 15:00

It's the casual type of racism...the 'oh I wouldn't say it to their face' behind the scenes type that people think is OK because they are not hearing anyone.

Like when I married my husband who is black British and whilst pregnant with my first DD friends and family found it hilarious to suggest very cliche African names for her. All very funny but still a hunt of racism about it.

9 times out of 10 these people start off a conversation with 'I'm not racist but'....

I agree with a previous poster that it is getting worse. It used to be that people were ignorant...then we started to be a little more civilised and encouraged people to use the right terminology and exercise respect for all people. Now I've noticed a trend with people who get offended being called snowflakes.

I used to think education was the key to the ignorance but I think its inherit in some people. Elitism is rife in most places I go.

Wantmyflipflops · 19/03/2019 15:01

Meant to say hurting anyone...not hearing anyone doh lol

Sayw · 19/03/2019 15:02

Oh and I've had similar with white people. Are you English? No, I'm Australian/Polish/German whatever.

What would have been racist is if your PILs had said he shouldn't be playing because of his colour. They didn't. They simply wondered what his heritage was.

But feel free to feel offended!

derxa · 19/03/2019 15:09

I'm sure your PILs are totally racist but I'm slightly sceptical about people discussing members of the French team at work. They were total also rans this year.

Absurditi · 19/03/2019 15:10

PBo83 why on earth would you even care where someone was “from”? It makes not one iota of difference to your life. Their race is “human” and they are from Earth. Just like everyone.

It's interesting. Not if you just single out black people though or anyone you don't think "looks" like you think they should Confused But it's interesting going into ancestry and tracing things, seeing how we all are a mix of many different areas etc. It doesn't "make a difference. I usually ask most people I know where their family history goes back to, regardless of their skin colour. It can come across the wrong way in some situations... But yeah I do think OPs example is racist.

Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 15:12

@derxa there was a conversation about the upcoming match. Several team members' names were mentioned. A girl mentioned that she quite fancied this particular player.
Surely that is not unusual in any office environment.

OP posts:
Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 15:17

@Sayw I suppose I don't understand why you need to know at that stage. Is it important to you that someone you consider dating has a particular heritage? I suppose if it's just curiosity it's one thing.

OP posts:
Basecamp65 · 19/03/2019 15:32

I do think some older people have not yet fully grasped how to talk about race and still use words and phrases the rest of us find offensive but I'm talking about older people - 80+

I am mid fifties and it was our generation that campaigned against apartied and really bought racial issues into the mainstream, so there is no excuse for your in laws.

Kamma89 · 19/03/2019 15:52

To all you saying its fine to ask where someone is from if they don't look white (which is what you mean) by all means ask. If they say london/manchester/Belfast etc LEAVE it at that. Its tiresome explaining your ethnic heritage over & over again. For someone like myself where every grandparent is mixed race I simply don't have the time to reel off 8 countries.

If you know someone well or are friendly you'll probably find out sooner or later so wind your curiosity in till then.

InnerCircle · 19/03/2019 16:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 21:40

@Kamma89 I think that's fair. I wouldn't like it if I told someone I was from Sheffield, and they kept pushing because I have red hair and they thought my parents might be Irish or something.

OP posts:
PBo83 · 20/03/2019 08:27

A girl mentioned that she quite fancied this particular player.

This is terribly sexist and, as a man, I find it incredibly offensive that this player is being judged on his physical appearance rather than his (questionable) ability on the rugby field. This is the kind of casual, everyday sexism that us men have to put up with in the work place.

...Damn it...I've been on this website too long! ;)

FrenchJunebug · 20/03/2019 09:11

of course it's racist and show a lack of knowledge.

foxtiger · 20/03/2019 10:07

cdtaylornats I wouldn't say Tony Greig was "not that long ago"!

I think the ILs in this case were being a bit racist, but in a way that a lot of people who do it don't recognise as racist because it's not malicious. Believe it or not I have talked to people who will cheerfully admit to being racist - "I am racist, I don't like [group] because [half-baked reason]." But I do believe this excessive curiosity about people's origins is a form of racism too, it's what you might call "othering" - they may or may not have believed that this guy shouldn't have been playing for the team, but they certainly believed his possible ethnic origins were the most interesting thing about him!

I used to work with a guy who had nothing against people of other ethnicities, but used jokey terms for them that could be considered racist, and seemed genuinely surprised when I pulled him up on it. Examples would be "bandage-heads" for Sikhs, and no-one was ever just black, always "black as the ace of spades." After that he was very careful not to use these terms around me and even stopped other people from using them in our immediate office, but on the grounds that I didn't like it, not that it was wrong in general. I should probably add that there were no non-white people in the office and hardly any in the town we worked in, so he wasn't saying these things in front of the people he was referring to.

bluegreygreen · 20/03/2019 10:18

why on earth would you even care where someone was “from”? It makes not one iota of difference to your life. Their race is “human” and they are from Earth. Just like everyone

gingersausage I did a fellowship in Toronto. It was great - one of the huge multicultural cities. Everyone asked where people were from - even just casual acquaintances. It was wonderful - it led on to thoughts and conversations about different languages/ countries / cultures.

It was a bit depressing to come back to the UK and be afraid to ask again.

For clarity, this does not refer to the nonsensical 'where are you really from?' question, which is obviously loaded and unpleasant. It's just expressing regret that we seem to have lost a certain ability to discuss respectfully each other's origins. I think we are losing out.

Grace212 · 20/03/2019 10:27

it is racist OP. This attitude seems to be getting worse now - well, okay, from my experience which is, um, one experience!

as usual it doesn't take long for people to appear on threads like this saying "but I always ask about people's history"....what's with the nosiness?!

PBo83 · 20/03/2019 10:33

as usual it doesn't take long for people to appear on threads like this saying "but I always ask about people's history"....what's with the nosiness?!

If you think asking about someone's background is racist then no wonder you think it's getting worse! I don't go up to random people and ask them to explain their ethnic make-up but it can certainly be an interesting topic when getting to know someone better.

Swipe left for the next trending thread