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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this was racist?

158 replies

Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 13:50

DH and I visited in laws at the weekend. They'd recorded a rugby match and were watching it. I don't follow rugby, so I'm not sure who else was playing, but I know France was. The camera zoomed in on a French player who was potentially non-white (for the record, I'm not even entirely convinced on this, but he had dark hair and eyes, and a darker complexion than many white people would have). The conversation went as follows:

FIL: I wonder where that guy's from.
DH: Well he's playing for France, so the most likely option is France.
FIL: Well you don't look like that and come from France, usually.
DH: Why do you say that?
FIL: Well, lots of non-French players play for France. They let anyone in. One of their players is called Demba Bamba.
Me: (vaguely recalling hearing this name during a conversation in work) Right, but he's French, isn't he?
FIL: Well not with a name like that.
Me: But this guy on the TV could have been born and raised in France - how do you know he wasn't?
MIL: well, he might have been born and raised there, but looking at him I can tell he's really Arabic.

I didn't want to say too much and the conversation moved on after that, but I felt uncomfortable about it for the rest of the day.

AIBU to think that making trying to make a judgement about this guy by his skin tone (and the other player by his name) is actually racist? I mean, I understand being curious about someone's heritage, but surely bringing up race when it's not relevant does kind of cross a line into racist territory?

OP posts:
strivingtosucceed · 19/03/2019 14:22

I'm sure he meant ' I wonder where he's originally from, or of what descent'. I don't think it's inherently racist.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 19/03/2019 14:24

of course it is. They are implying that anyone non-white cannot be a European citizen or national.

strivingtosucceed · 19/03/2019 14:25

FWIW, I never know what to say when people ask me where i'm from. I AM British, but i'm also from an African country that my family and I hold strong ties with, even though we're British back a few generations.

I don't get offended when people ask me, and I don't think it's racist to ask, especially because I have an 'ethnic' name.

PBo83 · 19/03/2019 14:26

@strivingtosucceed

I'm sure he meant ' I wonder where he's originally from, or of what descent'. I don't think it's inherently racist.

Agreed. It's what I tried to say in my post but I ended up waffling.

gingersausage · 19/03/2019 14:28

OP, I don’t believe you are so sheltered in your little white enclave of the world that you don’t know they are as racist as fuck!

@PBo83 why on earth would you even care where someone was “from”? It makes not one iota of difference to your life. Their race is “human” and they are from Earth. Just like everyone. 🤦‍♀️

Buster72 · 19/03/2019 14:29

The greatest French player ever, Serge Blanco was born of a Venezuelan father and Spanish mother, in Venezuela....(Ok he grew up in france)
The french team have a habit of importing talent from around the world and declaring them French with players getting passports on the eve of a game.
Kind of like a raft of southern hemisphere players in the England squad. It is an issue rugby must contend with because talent is leaving some countries (sa, Tonga, etc) for Europe and rugby is suffering

Totally misses the question

dreichuplands · 19/03/2019 14:30

FIL stated that the bamba chap couldn't be French because of his name, that sounds pretty racist to me and very different to wondering what his ethnic origins were.

Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 14:30

@gingersausage oh, I know they are racist!! Just wanted validation because many of the people around them seem to think their attitude is perfectly acceptable. Thankfully, DH is not one of those people!

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 19/03/2019 14:31

Kind of like a raft of southern hemisphere players in the England squad. It is an issue rugby must contend with because talent is leaving some countries (sa, Tonga, etc) for Europe and rugby is suffering

Was just going to make that exact point.

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 19/03/2019 14:31

I'm sure he meant ' I wonder where he's originally from, or of what descent'. I don't think it's inherently racist

It’s possible he meant this OP. Unless he’s usually racist I might have given him the benefit of the doubt this time.

strivingtosucceed · 19/03/2019 14:32

haha @PBo83 it happens to the best of us.

@gingersausage I ask people where they're from all the time. It makes an iota of difference to me because I care about them and their background. Maybe it's a BAME thing, because I know many people of Far East and South East Asian Descent that ask that of people they meet. Sometimes even to find their own kin. No need to be combative about it.

PBo83 · 19/03/2019 14:32

@gingersausage

Why on earth would you even care where someone was “from”? It makes not one iota of difference to your life.

I wouldn't care and it wouldn't affect me, or my opinion of that person, one iota. Doesn't mean that seeing someone with distinctive features/colouring and wondering where their ancestors may have originally been from is racist.

Monestasi · 19/03/2019 14:32

well, he might have been born and raised there, but looking at him I can tell he's really Arabic

This is so ignorant it is funny.

Hecketyheck · 19/03/2019 14:33

@PBo83 why on earth would you even care where someone was “from”?

Because sometimes it's just really interesting to know. As a white person who lived in various African countries for a considerable amount of time, no-one ever hesitated to ask where you were from - I didn't find it offensive, I found it nice that people were interested. In Tanzania, people would also ask each other which tribe they were from when they first met. It was never consider racist or "tribalist", just polite conversation.

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 19/03/2019 14:33

oh, I know they are racist!!

So why the thread?

Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 14:34

@GreatDuckCookery I see what you mean, but I suppose I tend toward it being racist because it wasn't relevant to the context (that I could see, anyway).

OP posts:
PBo83 · 19/03/2019 14:35

@strivingtosucceed

Agreed (again). I wouldn't ask random people I'd just met in a "Where are you from then?" way but, if I know someone fairly well, then it isn't racist to show interest in their heritage and can actually open up some pretty interesting conversations.

Buster72 · 19/03/2019 14:36

Gingersausage, is that why we all look alike, speak the same language, eat the same food etc....
Sometimes knowing someone's background gives an insight into making conversation...

Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 14:37

@GreatDuckCookery because I wondered about opinions on this particular incident, because my POV may be skewed by the fact that I already know they're racist.
Also, like I said, I suppose I was seeking some kind of validation, because lots of their friends and family seem to think their attitude is acceptable.

OP posts:
Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 14:39

I think it would probably be ok to ask someone's cultural background if it comes up in conversation, but not if you're only wondering because you caught a glimpse of them on TV and they weren't white enough to match your view of what a French person looks like.

OP posts:
Godowneasy · 19/03/2019 14:43

It's crazy racist. Unfortunately I find most of that generation do actually know better bit many of them just can't be bothered to modulate their thinking and behaviour. It's gross. My FIL has come out with special little nuggets like this too

Can we please stop accusing people on the basis of their age?

It's crazy ageist to do so.

It's also incorrect. I'm an older woman and the majority of people I know of my age do not hold racist views or express them in the way you have described.

That's not to say that racism is not alive and well though, just that it is spread across a much wider demographic than just age.

Original poster
Simmerflew · 19/03/2019 14:46

@Godowneasy I'm uncomfortable with that as well. Considering that my own parents are a similar age and not racist, and I work with some people in their early twenties who are definitely openly racist.

OP posts:
cdtaylornats · 19/03/2019 14:47

Not that long ago you could look at an England test match team and easily ask that -

Mike Denness - Scottish
Tony Greig - South African who somehow qualified for England because his parents were Scottish
Nassar Hussein - Indian
Kevin Peitersen - South African

Just because there wearing a national teams colours it doesn't tell you anything about their nationality.

However in the last six nations match against Italy all of the players were born in France, except Paul Willemse who is South African.

derxa · 19/03/2019 14:47

Kind of like a raft of southern hemisphere players in the England squad. It is an issue rugby must contend with because talent is leaving some countries (sa, Tonga, etc) for Europe and rugby is suffering Yes

nettie434 · 19/03/2019 14:48

I agree that asking about a person’s heritage isn’t inherently racist but remarks like ‘not with a name like that’ and ‘he’s really Arabic’ are. Your in laws will have a fit if they ever watch the French World Cup winning football side. Nearly all the players have Francophone African origins. Anyway, being really picky, the French government doesn’t collect any information on ethnicity. You are a either a French citizen or not.

Must be a relief your DH doesn’t share their views.