Would your DH behave in this way? AIBU (I don’t think so).

[alarmbell]

I really don’t mind people being honest about this scenario as sometimes I feel like I’m going mad. So yesterday, the plan was we were flying out at 6.30 (short haul flight) just for the weekend to attend an event held by one of DH’s friends. This meant picking up all 4 DC from their various schools at 3.40 / 4pm and just going straight to the airport. So we needed to be packed by 3pm.

In the morning, DH seemed to be working from home so he shut himself away in his office. I was packing, etc. He Whatsapped me to ask for coffee and something to eat at about 9.30 and and when I went in I asked him what did he want packing. He said he was too busy to think, so I asked him to put his stuff out in the bed because I had no idea whether to pack more formal stuff or if we needed outward bound gear etc. He was basically on the phone so I just left him to it because I could see he wasn’t going to answer. Then I had to go out for a blood test and pick up a few things.

I was feeling stressed while out because we had a pet sitter coming and I was aware I needed to get her bed ready and clean the house because the cleaner has been ill this last week. Also I was feeling a bit dizzy after the blood test and am generally shattered these days as it is. I hoped DH might have a least done something towards getting ready by the time so got back at 12.

What he was doing was ruining the garden. I have no idea why he felt the need to go out there when there was obviously stuff to do to get ready for a trip he had organised. He was hacking down trees with a chainsaw and then sawing all the wood into smaller pieces to fit them in the bins and then wheeling the bins through the house with all associated mud and mess. For what reason I don’t know.

At these times I feel like I can’t say anything to him because tbh, worlds fail me. Also he will say I’m being argumentative. So I got everyone packed, cleaned the house inc extra mud traipsed everywhere. Then he got in a mood because I told him not to come in the house with shoes on. So eventually we left to get the kids from various schools and he didn’t even ask what I’d packed for him. En route it was high stress again because of some business deal and he was talking on speaker phone most of the way so nobody else could talk, as well as driving very aggressively.

So here we are and I feel shattered today, although he in a great mood and the life and soul of proceedings. AIBU to think most DH’s wouid see what obviously needs to be done when you’re going away, even for just a weekend, and naturally get involved without being asked - rather than creating unnecessary mess and chaos instead?

As someone above mentioned ADHD, I was going to say look into ASD.

The having a PA situation sounds very like he has trouble with executive functioning. He can manage work situations, but is stressed about them. He seems stressed about things that others may not find so stressful. He likes to be/feel in control. He avoids dealing with certain situations that he's not sure how to deal with. He doesn't notice things that need doing (mud on the floor). His parents probably did a lot for him as he wasn't great at doing that kind of stuff.

DH has ASD traits and is dreadful at things like packing. Has no clue. However, was also not taught as a child how to do these things, or how far in advance. I have a friend also with ASD traits who has everything packed for a trip a week before. The bag sits there waiting and he's always at the airport far too early. DH more likely to mess up travel to get where we're going and forget his passport.

I do often do the physical packing as DH has no idea - I don't think he ever played with stacking cups as a child, or jigsaws or anything where things fit together . But, we both realise that and he knows he's responsible for getting stuff ready to pack, or, I'll choose to pack everything if I have time, but at least now he knows to layer on the thanks and gratitude as he now appreciates that if I choose to do his as well, I am doing him a favour and taking a task from him that he is not too good at. I expect to be treated as if I have done something for him rather than it was expected I would do it, if that makes sense.

We have come to agreements over the years of things we are both naturally good at or prefer to do so do tend to split tasks that way.

Mind you, said DH has just walked past me and told me that the washing machine says it has one minute to go on it. When questioned as to why he felt the need to tell me, he reckoned someone should know, then had a small huff when I pointed out that he knew, so didn't need to tell anyone else as he would deal with it, no?

I should have known though as when we got together, his place was a tip, his cooking supplies virtually zero and washing barely done....if only I knew to pick up those clues though! The men in my family are very competent at all tasks so it hadn't occurred to me that men existed who were rubbish at this stuff........although I know a woman who is and that comes back round to the executive functioning issues with ASD.

As others have said, you're letting him get away with it. Who doesn't want someone to do it all for them if they can? I know I'd love a maid .

Thankyou I’ve woken up to all the messages and I do feel kind of “heavy” this morning and so feel weird posting from the bathroom while he’s in bed. There so much to respond to but, briefly, I have been in therapy since last June. I’ve also been doing an part-time MA since last Sept which is going well. I have posted about DH a couple of years ago and maybe a year ago as well. One was mainly about the fact he he wasn’t keen on the potential career the MA will lead to - anyway, we’ve resolved that and I’m doing it. The other was about some if the hobbies and activities he was doing because it all felt too much and there were some changes there too - ie, he didn’t go in a particular trip that would have been very worrying for me. I don’t want to appear like a total victim either, that’s not my intention. I think the op who commented that I might be torturing to protect DH from himself, could well be right. We’re at a party with some if his business associates who are also friends. All highly successful, but in most cases their marriages failed and / or they’ve had periods in alcohol rehab or breakdowns. DH is fairly “together” in terms if his peers. But he is a lot day to day, he really is. I do feel I can reflect things back to him now and as I said, he doesn’t like it; he may go quiet or be “off” for a few days, but he does generally accept what I’m saying eventually. It’s a work in progress I guess and some phases are easier than others.
As for the DC, my eldest DS is 16 now. He’s very focused on doing well st school and being successful but I think he’ll be very different to his dad in a relationship. He will challenge him actually. He’s told him, “you do realise you’re an equal with your wife, she’s not a PA”, or words to that effect. He’s very perceptive and I’m very proud of him in so many ways. His brother is also a very kind boy and I feel so glad I’ve got two teen boys who still talk to me and want to spend time with their mum! The girls are a little younger, one I’m a little worried about as she could get pushed around a bit in relationships, etc. I guess nothing is ever going to be perfect. They are grateful to their dad and they love him a lot obviously. Sorry I’n probably rambling here.... I am reading everything but it’s a lot to respond to, but Thankyou.

torturing? Sorry that should read trying!

I fear I'm losing the plot on this. To all those 'ooh yes, my DH does this' - that is IRRELEVANT! YOUR dear husband is not an abusive possibly narcissistic arsehole like OPs is - for goodness sake's - you pick up on the LEAST important aspect of the entire post. For this man his whole modus operandi out of every single day is to be a bullying, controlling arse - the two situations do NOT compare and telling her 'don't pack for him' is absolutely pointless (sadly).

And looking to apply ADHD or ASD! He's abusive and a bully - end of. However even if he DID have one of these conditions - so what? He's still being an abusive bully - if it was found he had ADHD would it make one jot of difference to what OP should do? No. The impact on her and her children is absolutely enormous and the only thing that matters, so even if he has multiple health conditions, it doesn't actually matter that he does.

What OP needs to do, sadly, is start quietly making arrangements to get away from this man before he ruins her children's lives. That's it really.

Unless she can find the strength and accept that he will not change (because he can't) and it's not her responsibility, and understand that all she'll be 'taking away' from her children is stress and anxiety, then she is lost deep in this world that she finds herself in, therapy or not. That's if they all survive long enough before he kills them all with his driving.

I don't know OP if you can see how very serious this is and acknowledge the effect on your children and move to do something concrete about it because you do realise, having a nice chat with him or even getting very cross with him - it won't work. He'll soft soap you for a while, be slightly less of a twat for a while, and then he'll go right back to being the massive dick that he is. Because that's who he is.

You're very proud that your 16 yo DS has learned that his father's behaviour is unacceptable and abuse and will point it out to his dad-? From repeatedly seeing him act like a total twat towards you.

But at least out of the two daughters only one you think might 'only' 'get pushed around a bit in relationships' - so everything's ok then.

You're confirming they've ALL been affected and yet you think it's perfectly ok.

Jesus.

I have read the whole thread and I’m thinking wtaf. alarm - please get away from this man. Your kids are now seeing the affects of his behaviour, telling him he’s treating you badly. They’ll resent you for not getting out.
As for ASD etc -pfft. Even if he is autistic or has ADD that is not an excuse either to behave like a controlling twat.
He’s got you under his thumb cos of the money but if you divorced you’d be entitled to half, get maintenance, custody etc.,
Good luck - but you need to see the light first.

As an immediate measure, be busy. You are busy but use it as an excuse "Sorry, can't, too busy."

Driving is an easy one. Next time pick up the keys and sit in the drivers seat, when he looks confused say "I want to drive today."

Your DS realises what you are not really seeing yet OP.
Also it is not normal to feel like your DP going away for a few days, is a break. But I accept it is a break for you, a break from being controlled.

Was his dad bipolar? That can run in families, and is treatable.

Bipolar, Borderline Personality Disorder, ASD - it doesn’t MATTER what the cause is because the behaviour is abusive.

OP, I remember your previous posts. Please read up about boiling frog syndrome. Neither you nor your children should have to constantly be “grateful” to your DH.

Fear, Obligation, Guilt. That’s your relationship with your DH whether you realise it or not.

Just twigged who you are and remember the posts about his adrenalin fuelled 'derring- do' hobbies. (? ice and snow related)
I think that you've done well to maintain your relationship but very pleased that you've started therapy.
You must be made of sterner stuff than me because I'd be dreaming up alibies and camouflaging the void in the patio.
All the best with the therapy and your MA studies.
Oh and your kids sound lovely.

"You've done well to maintain your relationship" ?!!!!!

Anyway, onto actually relevant stuff from IHate:

^Boiling Frog Syndrome:
You put a frog in water and start gradually heating the water. As the temperature of the water keeps rising, the frog adjusts to each incremental increase. When it gets to the point where the water is SO hot that the frog thinks "I must jump out now" - it's too late, because he is no longer able to. The frog dies. What killed the frog? Not the boiling water, in truth what killed the frog was its own inability to know when it was the right time to jump out^.

OP, this is you. There is still time to jump out of this appalling relationship but you're edging very surely towards the point where it will no longer be possible to make the decision to 'jump'. I can only hope your therapist is incredibly perceptive and can figure out that type of person you're dealing with but it's going to be very difficult for them to to do that because you'll be minimising and playing down how awful it is, justifying it on the (frankly batshit) 'justifications' that you have a nice 16 yo DS and only one of your daughters (you think) is possibly going to have shit relationships with men in her future.

OP, how much worse does it have to get before you realise it's already too wrong to be sustainable going forward - and telling him next time to pack his own bag won't even scratch the surface. GET. OUT. While you can.

I would not be making drinks or food on demand! DH works from home and I sometimes make him a cuppa but he drinks more tea than me so it’s more likely for him to make me one. We might WhatsApp each other to ask if we want to go out for lunch and what time or if DD is at home I will say we are having pizza toast at 12 if you want to join us but he has to fit in with us.

We are going away to visit his family this week and as a SAHM I will pack for DD and me and I will leave the list of tolieteries and medicines that I have packed so he only needs to add his own personal stuff but I wouldn’t ever consider packing his clothes.

It does matter to get a diagnosis if appropriate because there may be treatment or help to change or manage a condition, support for the person diagnosed or family, validation that behaviour has a reason but is not an excuse, help to understand and put safeguards in place, realising it can or can't change and so decide whether to stay or go and a million other reasons.
Yes it's abusive, I wouldn't put up with it, but what if he could have medication and be more in control, happier and less of a pain?
He may refuse an assessment, that might be another reason to leave, information is power. Op is having therapy because he is unbalanced. Does that seem right? She may need independent help, why can't she say no, or just to get out. He may be deliberately abusive or just lack insight, the dance is a complicated one. Knowing what you are dealing with can help, it's not a reason to tolerate it.

ASD does not make you treat your wife like a PA.

OP "They are grateful to their dad and they love him a lot obviously."

no, not obviously at all. At this age, with you two still married, they are simply stuck with him.

it does sound to me that you are making progress in realising what is happening, so hopefully your next post will tell us you are leaving him. This is no way for anyone to live, including your DC.

I remember your previous threads and it was clear from them that you are there to serve him. You are his skivvy, getting up very early to make him his special smoothie, pick up his dirty rugby kit, cater for his rugby friends, colleagues and family etc etc.
Your life revolves around his wants and needs, allowing you to do the MA course is to keep you sweet.

I am starting to think him going on that silly North Pole trip isn't a bad idea after all.

I hope the therapy will help you realise that you deserve so much more, and that your wants and needs count.

I don’t get any impression from this thread that OP wants or is likely to get out of her slave mindset. It’s too deeply ingrained.

Sorry I’m not ignoring anyone, but we’re in transit and this is a lot to respond too. It’s impossible to get the whole situation if your life and an 18 year marriage across on MN. I have 4 DC and I’ve been with been with DH a long time and we’ve gone through a lot obviously. I will think on all this and reply properly when I can. As far as DD is concerned, I didn’t mean to imply I think she’s at risk from men or relationships in particular. I’m sorry, I think that came across wrong. What I meant was, she never had the same confidence as the others. Things don’t come as easily to her and sometimes she is prone to misunderstanding people. She needs a little more support in this area, that’s all. She’s been assessed for Aspergers but is not in that spectrum, but I do feel like I have to look out for her. My DC are my whole life and I can’t get the entirety of the situation over in here, but I’ve done my best. No family is perfect. I don’t think I’m in a slave mentality, maybe there’s elements of that which Im working on, but it’s complicated. Sorry I all this is garbled, but it’s difficult to express everything.

I don’t get any impression from this thread that OP wants or is likely to get out of her slave mindset. It’s too deeply ingrained.

I agree. Reminds me of the years my DH would tell me that my mother was abusing me. She had programmed me so well that I would actually try to defend her and say “She’s not that bad”. Very few emotional abusers are horrible all the time; they can be lovely, very generous and so on - for the simple reason that that’s HOW they control you and you stay in the boiling water.

Of course, my husband was right. When I finally woke up from the spell of FOG I was under and realised that never in a million years would DH or I treat our dd like that, I went No Contact.

@alarmbell You sound exactly like me a few years before I woke up and realised I had been severely abused. I don’t think you want to leave your DH at present because you are still in the “He’s not that bad; he has a lot of good points” phase.

However, the fact that you’ve posted here asking if this is normal is good. It shows that you’re slowly waking from the spell. For your children’s sake though PLEASE start making small steps at home while you research emotional abuse, walking on eggshells (there’s a book called that), setting a good example for your children by starting to challenge your DH’s behaviour (“You know where the kettle is; I’m busy at the moment). (Put out what you want packing otherwise it won’t get packed).

Also, PLEASE refuse to let him drive you and the children while aggressive and making phone calls. You don’t have to make a scene, just “I will drive so you can concentrate on business”.

Small steps but vital so your children don’t resent you when they’re older. It’s not their job to defend YOU from their father - you are the adult.

Really good points Jamie.

Women in this situation often use the ‘No family is perfect’ line to justify accepting abuse and not challenging the status quo.

OP I think your username is telling - somewhere in your psyche ‘alarm bells’ are ringing - but you’re not ready to acknowledge exactly what about or the implications

What he was doing was ruining the garden. I have no idea why he felt the need to go out there when there was obviously stuff to do to get ready for a trip he had organised. He was hacking down trees with a chainsaw and then sawing all the wood into smaller pieces to fit them in the bins and then wheeling the bins through the house with all associated mud and mess. For what reason I don’t know.

Would my DP behave in this way?

YES!!!! If he wasn't here this weekend I would wonder if we are actually sharing the same man.

He did exactly this the day before we went on holiday. I did two long days at work, got home at 7pm. Flight was at 7.30am the next morning. Had to be out at 4.45.

• House not clean
• Children not packed
• No devices charged or any downloads sorted

THREE TREES HACKED TO FUCK IN THE GARDEN

I am still absolutely raging about it. Didn't want the trees chopped and didn't want to come home to leaves through the house, having to sort food and all the bags and to basically not be speaking the night before our holiday.

Missing the point somewhat here...

My DH hates cleaning and if the house needs desperately needs doing and he's around he will start doing some other random and non-urgent task. Such as sorting out cupboards and making a mess on the floor whilst the jobs which do need doing include hoovering.

Its always things that yes they need to be done but there are more pressing tasks.

And again....