Would your DH behave in this way? AIBU (I don’t think so).

[alarmbell]

I really don’t mind people being honest about this scenario as sometimes I feel like I’m going mad. So yesterday, the plan was we were flying out at 6.30 (short haul flight) just for the weekend to attend an event held by one of DH’s friends. This meant picking up all 4 DC from their various schools at 3.40 / 4pm and just going straight to the airport. So we needed to be packed by 3pm.

In the morning, DH seemed to be working from home so he shut himself away in his office. I was packing, etc. He Whatsapped me to ask for coffee and something to eat at about 9.30 and and when I went in I asked him what did he want packing. He said he was too busy to think, so I asked him to put his stuff out in the bed because I had no idea whether to pack more formal stuff or if we needed outward bound gear etc. He was basically on the phone so I just left him to it because I could see he wasn’t going to answer. Then I had to go out for a blood test and pick up a few things.

I was feeling stressed while out because we had a pet sitter coming and I was aware I needed to get her bed ready and clean the house because the cleaner has been ill this last week. Also I was feeling a bit dizzy after the blood test and am generally shattered these days as it is. I hoped DH might have a least done something towards getting ready by the time so got back at 12.

What he was doing was ruining the garden. I have no idea why he felt the need to go out there when there was obviously stuff to do to get ready for a trip he had organised. He was hacking down trees with a chainsaw and then sawing all the wood into smaller pieces to fit them in the bins and then wheeling the bins through the house with all associated mud and mess. For what reason I don’t know.

At these times I feel like I can’t say anything to him because tbh, worlds fail me. Also he will say I’m being argumentative. So I got everyone packed, cleaned the house inc extra mud traipsed everywhere. Then he got in a mood because I told him not to come in the house with shoes on. So eventually we left to get the kids from various schools and he didn’t even ask what I’d packed for him. En route it was high stress again because of some business deal and he was talking on speaker phone most of the way so nobody else could talk, as well as driving very aggressively.

So here we are and I feel shattered today, although he in a great mood and the life and soul of proceedings. AIBU to think most DH’s wouid see what obviously needs to be done when you’re going away, even for just a weekend, and naturally get involved without being asked - rather than creating unnecessary mess and chaos instead?

You say he would do anything for you - have you asked him to engage more with family life - pick up kids from school, get the weekly shop, let you have a lie in at the weekend, be home early on a Wednesday evening so you could join the local choir. Not just as a one off, but every week? Would he step up ? We can all be supportive occasionally, it's the people who are there for you every day who are really supportive, not just fairweather supporters.

You say he would behave in just the same way if he was single - but he couldn't could he? If there was no one around to do his packing - he would have to do it. He would have to come downstairs and make his own coffee.

I often find it interesting to re-define the problem - see how this sounds - your intensive support of his workaholic lifestyle is enabling him to function at such a level of intensity that he is more likely to burn out / have a break down than if you stepped back and he would have to involve himself to a greater extent in everyday stuff, allowing his body to recover from all that adrenalin pumping through his veins.

I have seen couples in just the same situation and all I see is one person sucking their partner dry whilst seeking their own self fulfilment. It is not an equal partnership sadly.

If I said to him something like “do your own packing” or “make your own dinner, I’m off” he would take that as me saying I’m angry with him or I don’t love him enough. He thinks if I love him, I should want to do it naturally. It’s true that he’d never say “no” to me on other issues and he’s quite easy-going in other ways - eg. I choose where we go in holiday or the house or where we go for lunch or what to see in the theatre - all this kind of thing and he’ll just go with it. I think he’s very needy to be honest as he needs certain behaviours from me to help him feel wanted and secure.

There's an interview still kicking around with Karen Carpenter and her brother. He looks fit, healthy, vital, strong, dominant. She of course is completely diminished, empty, essentially voiceless. Anorexia aside, this is how I feel the power mis-match is with OP.

Not wishing to be melodramatic but I think the water is boiling hot right now and you need to get out of the pot.

ALL your responses refer back to how it affects HIM, how HE behaves, HIS wishes - there's NOTHING about you at all. And that's really sad because I imagine you are lovely, lovely woman and you really, really do not deserve or warrant being treated like this by anyone.

The only reason he doesn't care about things OP is because they don't mean anything to him - so he doesn't give a job which show you pick or whether you eat sushi or a steak.

That's the only reason you get choice. Plus it's something that allows you to say "oh well, he lets me pick the restaurant" because it makes him appear as though he is reasonable, when he most certainly is not.

*The only reason he doesn't care about these particular things

I should have said.

That’s very normal in my experience. We were going on holiday last year and at the last moment, as I was putting the suitcases in the car, my husband was on the floor in the living room putting together a computer....
I’ve learnt now not to do anything for him if we are going away somewhere. Clean and tidy the house around him, leave his suitcase on the bed, deal with myself and the children and he seems to have got the message!

He thinks if I love him, I should want to do it naturally.

So why doesn't it work the other way around? He loves you, why doesn't he naturally want to pack for you? Why aren't you the one ordering food and coffee from him whenever and however you fancy?

Rookie - I left the MIL situation out of this but I would say there’s definitely been progress there. She rarely calls DH to go down there in the night since she finally took medication for her anxiety. He still has to accompany her in flights though. But the main thing is, she has a “gentleman friend” now and she’s much more involved in the Iranian community. She doesn’t come every day now. I just take her out weekly. I did lose the plot and give him an ultimatum over his mother. DH was very clear with her when I started the course.

He can't bear to be bored but he thinks the OP's calling in life is to pack socks.

The denial is too deep here. We are all wasting our time. Maybe one day op will get there.

53rd because he doesn't know where the coffee cups are kept, if I recall.

He does know where things are. I don’t think I ever said that? To be honest, its tricky when people bring past threads into a current one because that was then and this is now and I really don’t want to drag all that up. Things have changed in many ways. I’m surprised anyone can remember about the other stuff to be honest. I’m sorry if people think I’m a lost cause. I will discuss all this in therapy, but I’m sure you understand that it’s not reasonable to start a thread on MN and then, by page 12, agree to get into divorce proceedings. I’m trying to be honest and I can’t lie and say I’m going to leave him any time soon if I’m not. That wasn’t my intention on starting the thread.

Also, if I’m packing for the DC he would see it as me being mean and uncaring if I didn’t include him in that. This is his mentality. He would ask why I would treat him like that because he would never begrudge me anything.

OP you are a mother to your DC, they are children. You are a wife to your husband and he is an adult. You are supposed to be equals. He wants you to be his mother and look after him as you look after the children and on top of that be a servant, PA and general dogsbody but NOT his wife, an adult in your own right, his equal and deserving of respect - why can you not see this?

If I said to him something like “do your own packing” or “make your own dinner, I’m off” he would take that as me saying I’m angry with him or I don’t love him enough. He thinks if I love him, I should want to do it naturally

and that whole sentence but particularly the bit I've bolded is as emotionally manipulative as fuck.

My assessment of your denial is not about whether you will leave him (I know you will not) but the excuses and justifications you make for this appalling relationship.

Sorry the 1st half posted accidentally

@alarmbell He thinks if I love him, I should want to do it naturally.

“If you loved me, you would....”

That is emotional abuse. Right there.

Huh ? My phone is trying to send me daft.

I don’t disagree with the PPs who have rightly pointed out that it doesn’t matter if he consciously means to be manipulative or not. What matters is how it makes me feel.

There were many years when I was kind of on automatic and I didn’t really feel anything. I thought I was super-privileged and he facilitated me to have the freedom to be with my kids and all the rest. I never questioned his whole rationale or the relationship. I know that probably sounds stupid, but it’s true. I thought I was lucky. I literally never questioned anything or had a concept that it could be different. I’m in a different place now, but it took a long time and is still have doubts. It’s been a stressful year in more ways than one but I know Im in a different hesdspace these days.
I do need to get a grip, I know this. Thanks for bothering to even read all this to those who have.

alarbell He thinks if I love him, I should want to do it naturally - can you see how emotionally manipulative that is?

Think about it - would you want a boyfriend of your daughters to say this to them in order to coerce them into having sex with them?

You have been carefully and subtly emotionally abused into submission. Your dh is in control of you, you are craven to his demands as he pushes all the right buttons to make you dance to his tune.

The 'you should want to do it naturally' as totally manipulative.

It's coercive and infers you have some obligation to 'love him naturally' - and what does that even mean? It means you will do whatever he says whenever he says and subjugate yourself to him at all times; that this is your priority in life. Which you're following perfectly at all times.

The only important person is your other half OP.

Not you.

Not your children.

NO ONE but him.

It's an appalling situation.

The only reason he doesn't care about things OP is because they don't mean anything to him

I'd agree with this. He's fine with letting you make choices about things he isn't so invested in (I doubt he cares at all whether he sees one show over another, that's all 'your' stuff he humours you with). That leaves a large swathe of, frankly, more important things that he has total control of.
The significant bit would be challenging one of these other things, and doing so on the grounds of him 'doing everything for you and the kids'. I would pick the driving. I would say that you want him not to take / make calls in future when driving as you want to feel that yours and the kids' safety is his priority and you feel anxious when he is driving and also having an animated business discussion. If he demurs, I would be saying (sweetly) that you know he would do anything for you and this would make you feel much happier and calmer. See if he is willing to make the sacrifice on that.

It sounds like money is no object here, so could you, as a temporary measure, throw money at the problem? I couldn't drive in the circumstances you describe either, but I couldn't be running the risk of an accident with an aggressive, distracted driver either. I think you need a driver/PA person whose job it is to manage the diary and logistics and drop you at the airport. Pick one thing and change that and see where it gets you.

I think if you are taking risks with your and the kids' physical safety, that has got to be a line.