Would your DH behave in this way? AIBU (I don’t think so).

[alarmbell]

I really don’t mind people being honest about this scenario as sometimes I feel like I’m going mad. So yesterday, the plan was we were flying out at 6.30 (short haul flight) just for the weekend to attend an event held by one of DH’s friends. This meant picking up all 4 DC from their various schools at 3.40 / 4pm and just going straight to the airport. So we needed to be packed by 3pm.

In the morning, DH seemed to be working from home so he shut himself away in his office. I was packing, etc. He Whatsapped me to ask for coffee and something to eat at about 9.30 and and when I went in I asked him what did he want packing. He said he was too busy to think, so I asked him to put his stuff out in the bed because I had no idea whether to pack more formal stuff or if we needed outward bound gear etc. He was basically on the phone so I just left him to it because I could see he wasn’t going to answer. Then I had to go out for a blood test and pick up a few things.

I was feeling stressed while out because we had a pet sitter coming and I was aware I needed to get her bed ready and clean the house because the cleaner has been ill this last week. Also I was feeling a bit dizzy after the blood test and am generally shattered these days as it is. I hoped DH might have a least done something towards getting ready by the time so got back at 12.

What he was doing was ruining the garden. I have no idea why he felt the need to go out there when there was obviously stuff to do to get ready for a trip he had organised. He was hacking down trees with a chainsaw and then sawing all the wood into smaller pieces to fit them in the bins and then wheeling the bins through the house with all associated mud and mess. For what reason I don’t know.

At these times I feel like I can’t say anything to him because tbh, worlds fail me. Also he will say I’m being argumentative. So I got everyone packed, cleaned the house inc extra mud traipsed everywhere. Then he got in a mood because I told him not to come in the house with shoes on. So eventually we left to get the kids from various schools and he didn’t even ask what I’d packed for him. En route it was high stress again because of some business deal and he was talking on speaker phone most of the way so nobody else could talk, as well as driving very aggressively.

So here we are and I feel shattered today, although he in a great mood and the life and soul of proceedings. AIBU to think most DH’s wouid see what obviously needs to be done when you’re going away, even for just a weekend, and naturally get involved without being asked - rather than creating unnecessary mess and chaos instead?

but I have begun to tell him a few things.

Here's a thought

Tell him to leave and then you can reclaim your life

You need this: www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

It's upsetting how much he's trained you to accept as "normal" that really, really isn't.

My DH was similar to this. Work was all consuming and assumed to be the most important thing, which relegated me to admin assistant, nanny and general dogsbody. He also said that everything that he did was for the family, by which he meant that putting work first was 'for the family' because him being successful was the most important thing. He would agree to things like going out for a family meal and then just not turn up because there was a work 'crisis'. He dealt with family issues the way that he dealt with work things, by delegating to the most capable person (me). If I complained he told me that any other woman would be happy to have a husband like him and would be a better wife and I should try harder to be understanding of him and his stresses.

For a few years I just dealt with it because there was so much going on, young kids, a move to another country and then my Dad was terminally ill. I really felt that the problems were down to the temporary state we were in and would be better 'after' (after the move, after he finished his doctorate, after Dad was gone, when the kids were older etc). He was irritated by my irrelevant 'chatter' so I communicated important stuff by email and just sorted all the family stuff in the background without bothering him, I moved out of the master bedroom and we didn't have sex for several years.

Eventually, after I was recovered from Dad dying, I realised that this wasn't the way I wanted to live and it wasn't going to change. We went for relationship counselling. I didn't even bother to argue against his expectations of me, I just said that it wasn't what I wanted for myself and he was better off finding the wife that he clearly needed. The counsellor was excellent, she was very clear headed and made both of us explain and rationalise our positions. It definitely forced him to consider viewpoints outside of his own and gradually he turned back into the man that I first married. We moved forward with the divorce while doing counselling and he was helpful, cooperative and kind (not at the start obviously, but improved the whole time). We didn't end up getting divorced and we get on ok now. He still works a lot but pulls his weight better, turns up when he's supposed to (DS has lots of additional needs so there is a fair amount of meetings with the school and psychologists etc) and is appreciative of what I do.

I think I had to be at the stage where I was ready to leave for it to work out. If I had threatened to divorce but really wanted to stay together then I think he would have improved temporarily. I think it's knowing that he really doesn't want to be left on his own and that I am fully prepared to leave him that stops him sliding back into his self-centred ways.

Mumsnet was fabulous at the time, until I had to delete all my posts because he kept printing them off a quoting them in the counselling sessions. Take time to decide what's best for you (and the DC), you don't need to consult with him or even particularly consider his feelings, just think about how you want your life to be within the parameters of what's realistically possible. And then decide whether that's worth chasing. At that point it's up to him to decide whether to change himself or lose you.

Oh OP I don’t want to kick you while you are down but I agree with the PP you have been trained or groomed actually into being an empty shell into being a servant and to be grateful for it.
I hope therapy works for you and you start to like your self more and see how damaging this has been to you.
Do you have a DS would you like them to treat their future partners in the same way?
I could say don’t pack for him and don’t get his coffee and food just because he demands it but, i don’t think you are quite there yet.
Good luck OP.

this sounds to me like it is totally intentional sabotaging of your own life and strikes me he has strong narcissistic personality behaviour tendencies- I would not put up with that for 30 seconds - sorry but do check up on NPD personality descriptions and see if he matches and if so then get out please for our own sanity - and if not then tell him to address his own game playing bad behaviour and not put you into that position again xxx

Oh OP you missed a trick there. I would have packed his suitcase with some clingfilm-wrapped parcels of talcum powder and stuffed them in the lining of his suitcase. You would have had a stress-free flight and hubby would have arrived some hours later, after a thorough grilling.

OP they won't grow up resentful of their dad, they'll grow up resentful of you - that's what a previous poster was trying to say would be your future.

He doesn't have to hit you or threaten to hit you to be controlling and abusive arsehole OP. He CHOOSES to be in this heightened state always super-close to nearly losing it - and by remaining deliberately in that state he can ride roughshod over normal niceties, speaking to you with respect, working as a proper partner. And this behaviour of being on the edge all the time with the implicit 'threat' that if you say the wrong thing 'you'll send him over the edge' - and THIS is how he's controlling you. And he is, controlling you. You need to raise this with your therapist because it is not healthy it is not normal and the children WILL be upset by it, anxious because of it, feel stressed by it i GUARANTEE you, whether they say so or not. If they can't express it now they will do so in the future and they will not see you as someone who protected them but someone who allowed this to go on. There's often no coming back from that as a parent....

As to the driving whilst aggressively talking on the phone - this is a fabulous example of how stressful and anxiety-causing this must be for your children. Awful, the tension must be absolutely dreadful. And at the same time he's actually putting all your live's at risk if he's driving aggressively and absent-mindedly. He sounds like an absolutely menace and a danger on the road. I'm telling you now, I'd not get in the car with him, not ever, if he drove like that, and I certainly wouldn't let my children in the car with him! Fuck no.

About the Whatsapping though. Clearly with the picture we have of this man's behaviour, it's just a further example of his utter disdain for anyone else but himself, and his clear feelings of absolute superiority over absolutely everyone else. He sounds just as combative and over the top with the people he speaks to for work as well and messaging you is a further example of this. DD and I message each other - she messages me from her bedroom to ask if I wouldn't mind making her a snack - if I don't mind, I make her one, if I do mind, I don't - in that example it's not the behaviours of a complete arse, it's just removing the need for either one of us to go up and down two flights of stairs so in other contexts it can be entirely normal when in the basis of a mutually respectful relationship (which is not the case in OPs situation, far from it).

No you cannot stop him burning himself out but I cannot see a life of much pleasure or solidarity between you going forward, if you have to effectively 'remove' yourself from 60% of it just to a. prevent yourself going completely mad and b. to protect your children from his horrible behaviours - how is that going to be a life, a marriage? Marriage should not be like this. He's really done a number on you OP and you sound like you're getting depressed (hence the tiredness). He's large, looming, vital and he's literally sucking the life force out of you. I really feel for you but it's on your hands to turn this around. It sounds utterly miserable for everyone, except your 'D'H.

OP I have a question for you. What do you get from this relationship? You don't get him sharing the cleaning, washing, cooking, admin, you don't get to spend cosy evenings on the sofa with him, you don't get family weekends or holidays without him either being plugged into work, hobbies or the stock exchange, you don't get companionship and I'm not seeing much if any love coming from his direction. So what does he contribute to you and your children's lives.

It boils down to what you get from him is money. If you split up he would not only have to pay you a chunk of his income in child support, he would also be expected to have the children on a regular basis which would at least give you time to breath and decide what you want to do with your life. I'm sure it seems inconceivable but it is doable.

NicoAndTheNiners

Dh does shit like this. Usually before a day out/planned trip. He will suddenly feel the need to start hoovering or diy when we need to leave in 30 mins.

Why oh why do men do this??? My dad would do this all the time. He’d do nothing all day (on a weekend) and then when we had to be somewhere and my mom would say, “O.k., everybody get your shoes on,” my dad would suddenly take up a project that had been sitting around for weeks. Or he’d decide to mow the lawn.

DH used to do that a lot more than he does now – decide as we were walking out the door somewhere that he needed to work on the garden. He’s better now and doesn’t pull this as often.

DH also packs for himself. He takes a lot of business trips and deals with his own stuff, as he should.

OP, it sounds like you are more like a maid than a wife. Your DH acts like he is too busy and “important” to worry about the children and the house, and he leaves that up to you, his PA. If you are a SAHM, then I can see the division of labor as more cut-and-dried: He takes care of the family financially and your job is the children and the house. However, it sounds like he has no respect for you and is treating you like a servant. This is not a partnership, and you and the children are walking on eggshells around this man. It’s very sad.

I agree with a pp who asked you to imagine what your life will be like when the DCs have left home. It will be even worse for you. Will you be ready? What will you do?

Dointit has it completely right. Being constantly on edge is his form of control, it’s enough to keep you in line. Dear OP I’m not surprised you’re exhausted - everyone must be on edge all the time. Dreadful for the kids too. Imagine coming out of school on a Friday afternoon and jumping in a car with a wound up dad, sitting silently so he can have a loud, important conversation and drive like a wanker. God, it makes my stomach kind of hurt just thinking about it, never mind doing it for real. Poor them, poor you.

So glad you have started counselling - better hope your guy is good cos there is a lot to work through.

"I don’t want my DC to grow up resentful of their dad."

Well that could happen and it would be a situation of his making.

What I'd be more concerned about is that they are growing up thinking this is normal and will expect this behaviour in their relationships as adults.

Do you have daughters OP?
Is this what you want for them?

Nothing will change until you change something. Your other half isn't going to change of his own volition, why would he, he has his own personal slave.

Next time he whatsapp orders coffee maybe you could start with, 'it'll be ready in the kitchen in 5' - gotta start somewhere. Then be too busy to make it - he might as well do it himself once he's got off his arse. Start being too busy yourself - if you prioritise your own stuff you probably will be. Keep up with the counselling.

OP, just reading your posts - will get to all others soon - your OH sounds like a complete adrenaline junkie trapped in an ever decreasing spiral of existential angst. Almost a death wish, such are the risks he takes on the roads, in the markets & with his health.

He is an adult.
Your responsibilities are your own safety, health & wellbeing for your own sake, & so that you can be the mother your children need to assure their safety, health, wellbeing & growth. The buck stops there. Autocorrect said Buick !

Continue with your therapy.
Prepare & plan for a change in life circumstances- either because he manages to kill or maim himself, looses his business, goes into therapy or you split up. Any of the above. Something has to give as his life pace is not sustainable...for any of you.

Other Mners can point to superb threads about what documentation you should be collating to assure your family’s financial stability ( with or without your OH).

Seems like even his way of 'helping' you when he does is part of the pattern?

Swooping in for short periods when you‘ve keeled over is just being 'at the max' again under another guise, rather than working together day to day in a sustainable way.

It's on his terms, under his control, pleases the ego with some kudos. It's a 'crisis', so being the hero will give adrenaline just like business deals etc. Not so good for your self esteem though, and the crisis could be averted.

This is your work environment, so it doesn't seem fair that you can't relax in the evenings when the DC are in bed.

What really stood out to me was that all the stress and run around yesterday was for a trip to see HIS friend, that he initiated??? So, hugely for his benefit, presumably.

I was in a situation a bit like yours OP. It has been amazing how much more energised I am again now, really lost the ability to strategise well - and also to enjoy things that I've put time and effort into.

OP, this behaviour is raising all kinds of red flags. Abuse does not always mean physical abuse. It can also mean highly controlling behaviour, which is exactly what this is. And abusers can be lovely a lot of the time too.

PLEASE have a read of the abuser profile "The Demand Man" in the link below. It fits everything you are saying about your DH. You will note that it says he can be nice too - but on his own terms. You are basically there to serve his needs and if you do not, he "punishes" you (and that is what the tree cutting was - a passive aggressive way of putting you in your place and signalling that HE and he alone gets to decide what is important).

Link:
m.facebook.com/notes/rebecca-cummings/abuser-profiles-from-why-does-he-do-that-by-lundy-bancroft/480862655302912/

I also suggest you read the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. I am sure will shed some light on your DH's behaviour.

That's a great link Violet.

Yes, the tree-cutting Violet, I agree with how you've framed it.

It's almost like a dare isn't it? "Because of your comments about me packing and doing one single thing for myself, I'm going to act crazy slashing at trees with a chainsaw in such an erratic manner you not only fear for the trees and shrubs but for me possibly injuring myself (oooh, the drama, the tension) whilst make a shocking mess I know will upset her whilst doing something that I KNOW is not what is needed right at this moment, overly and right in her face - you just DARE to say something alarm, go on, I dare you".

It's such horrible, horrible behaviour. I cannot believe the children aren't on edge and highly stressed by it.

I had a decent childhood all told. All I had to see was my parents arguing vociferously with each other (great long slanging matches) and it has left me with lifelong anxiety that has gotten worse and worse as the years have gone on, not better. That's just from watching some arguing - your scenerios OP sound incredibly, damagingly stressful and anxiety-causing, especially for children.

I'm going to be blunt here...

You sound absolutely worn down with not being in an equal relationship

The fact that you're having to have therapy speaks volumes.... Happy people rarely need therapy.

He's doing faux busy-mess to avoid other stuff... Whatever that happens to be.

He probably gets off on the adrenalin of continually being 'on the edge' this can activate the reward centres like for gambling /sex.

So he works ridiculous hours... How happy are you with this?

With all the extra (unnecessary) hobbies... How happy are you that he prioritises all these hobbies above you and your kids?? (I speak as an adult child of a father like this... The fall out has been horrific...??)

What message is this givinf your kids...

You say you're not frightened of him but of his 'looks' at you... This sounds like classic FOG... Fear, obligation, guilt...

He's done a complete number on you.

PS.... You need to find a way forward...
Do you want to be with this man... If you do... He will have to change....

Or else do you want another 5/10/40/50 years of being his maid.??

Anyone who WhatsApped me ordering coffee and food would get a single and unequivocal message sent back. It would read "Fuck off".

I'm with everyone else here. Stop running yourself ragged for him here. Why did you do his packing? Can he not lift his clothes into his case himself?

I've never packed for DH. He was a shit packer when we first met, but a few trips of realising he had packed no pants, toothbrush or trousers seemed to sort that out.

Same for my children. I haven't actually packed for them since they were in junior school. They seem to quite like doing their own.

Time manchild grew up a bit here. Don't stand for this shit.

He sounds quite unwell to me, obsessive, driven, delusions of self importance. Lacks empathy, self awareness, treats people as useful objects and has uncontrolled rage. Do you think have some (mild?) psychological or mental health problem or disorder. I would look into that as well as what other posters say.

“putting work first was 'for the family”

Sorry I just snuck out of the dinner and this is a lot to absorb. They’d are so many things I could copy and paste and I will look at the links. “Demand man” sounds fairly apt, yes. But the above is exactly what he says. He says everything he does is for the family, to give us the life and opportunities we have. He says this is his role and he takes it seriously. He is also of ME background if its relevant - he’s very British but on the more traditional side in terms if his attitudes, if that makes sense. The thing is, I can’t say he doesn’t work hard and of course I’m very grateful to him for many things. At the same time, his work and his “next thing” literally shapes our whole lives and it’s been my job by default to absorb the fall out. He is a workaholic, no doubt. If he didn’t do extreme sports to “relax” it might have been alvihol or something which is why I never tried to stop him doing the things he lives. I’ve always been worried he might have a breakdown or something. When you have 4 DC you don’t really have much time to stop and process things. I don’t regret being home with them all these years, but it has struck me recently that he never once, since I had DC1 15 years ago, asked me if I ever wanted to return to work or anything remotely along those lines - ie something outside the family. He has multiple companies, he travels a fair bit and when he does it feels like a break if I’m absolutely honest. And yes it’s true (and this comment really struck a chord as well) that he’s always there for me in a crisis. He’s done loads for my family. He’s very generous and can be so thoughtful too on occasions. I trust him 100% and I d been with him since I was 23. I can’t see him as abusive, but I do know I feel in edge a lot of the time and it’s only when he’s relaxed and happy that I feel I can relax. I’m sure it must affect the kids. I have 2 boys and 2 girls. I’ve really tried my best to balance things out for them though. Thanks again for all your views and experiences. It does make me think - a lot. It’s very difficult at the same time.

@alarmbell the pps who mentioned Fear Obligation and Guilt are spot on. He has trained you well to defend and justify his behaviour. He’s “generous”, does everything “for the family”, has helped your family out, helps in a crisis. For all that, you are supposed to feel grateful to him (that’s where the Obligation comes in). He works SO hard and never sits down, you feel Guilty about resting and relaxing. You Fear challenging him, you fear him having a breakdown.

F.O.G. are the tools of a controlling person. He has and still is brainwashing you. Coercive Control is now a criminal offence, by the way.

Have you ever heard of the boiling frog syndrome?

I remember your previous threads OP (well I'm pretty certain it was you - I think your daughter commented on her dad ordering breakfast like in a restaurant - if not you should search for that thread because your husband has a double). I think you've posted since then too.

So, nothing gets better, nothing changes, and you are very unhappy with this relationship. You can't change him. You can only change what you will tolerate.

This "I do it all for you" is bullshit by the way. utter bullshit. Men do it for themselves. He is probably a good provider but that is certainly not why he works at the level he does. He is an adrenaline junkie who likes being a big swinging dick and likes having a wife who runs around after him. Fine if you were a woman who likes that but you are not. It's just the fog of rearing 4 children (singlehandedly except for the money) hasn't let you see that until now. My guess is your children are getting more independent so you have some space to see your life as it is.

The Lundy Bancroft 'Why does he do that' book recommended earlier was very useful to me in recognising that it was him and not me. It's also useful for putting behaviour into a type or pattern, so I could tell that it wasn't just one-off things here and there, it was an underlying sense of entitlement and lack of care for my feelings.