Are gun laws U?

[Backwoodsgirl]

In light of recent attacks in NZ, the increase in knife and gun crime in the UK, shootings in the US and France. What do people think are reasonable options for weapons related laws?

It's clear that none on the current system around the world are perfect.

I am a Brit in the USA, and a gun owner, I also have a concealed carry permit. and I am interested to see what people see as reasonable.

I can’t think of any reason for someone to have a gun. As for hunting - well fuck off with that - shooting a beautiful animal is disgusting.

Are you a vegetarian, Faerie? If so, I can understand why you feel that way. If not, it’s a tad hypocritical.

I’ve shot livestock in my time, and it was never pleasant as it was always to put an animal out of its suffering when it was injured or ill. I can understand that vegans might argue the livestock shouldn’t have been farmed in the first place, and I respect that (though I disagree). However, it was the principal reason for gun ownership where I grew up. The second was pest control (of animals that would either not have existed in those numbers, or at all in that place, if it hadn’t been for agriculture.)

Alas, I fear you proved mine @THEsonofaBITCH

As for hunting - well fuck off with that - shooting a beautiful animal is disgusting.

Unfortunately, where humankind has skewed the environment for it's own benefit, it's rather incumbent on us to take over managing it from nature. One example is culling animals where no natural predator exists in order to reserve the health of the herd overall. If I were given such a task, I'd rather use a gun than anything else.

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira Wed 20-Mar-19 10:37:58
Alas, I fear you proved mine @THEsonofaBITCH
no worries, your fear is unfounded

Have you lived in an area where it is £6 for 2L of orange juice, there is little economic base, there are polar bears, and little food can be grown as the ground is bare rock and you're above the treeline? The community is only accessible by air or sea.

These communities exist. I have lived in one. People hunt and trap because it is how they survive and have survived for centuries.

“People hunt and trap because it is how they survive and have survived for centuries.”

Yep. I don’t think anyone would have a problem with people in those circumstances being licenced to for an appropriate firearm.

Compare the way our law makers are currently insulting a majority of voters, and we are powerless to do a thing about it

Jesus Christ, this is dangerous stuff. It's tantamount to wishing people had guns so they could shoot MPs.

Fuck me- the idea of UKIP with guns.........

People in twosn in the UK don't need or want guns and it works pretty well. Get in a temper with your spouse and you are limited to chucking mugs or the frying pan at them, give or take the odd streak night. Have guns around and more damage tends to be done. I am not minimising the city knife crime problems of the moment but guns are worse.

There is just a difference between most of the US mindset (other than some in some US towns).
Anyone watching Season 3 of Billions which was quite funny last night. One chap wanted a concealed carry permit for NY (very hard to get apparently).

You cannot compare US to UK. Gun ownership means something different in the US. It just does and no amount of imposing UK thinking on it makes that change.
I personally believe in strong background checks and am against semi automatic military style guns. But gun ownership has a different significance in US.

I have to agree with the first reply, from @Merryoldgoat too.

I will never understand the gun laws in the US. They are ludicrous. I think the UK gun laws are excellent and how they should be. There is no need for normal people to carry around guns.

I would never want guns to be carried by citizens in the UK but I can see why they are pretty much a requirement for self defence in some parts of the US.
You can travel (and I have) for hundreds of miles in America without seeing a soul. If you live in the middle of nowhere you need protection.

I would want to be armed with a gun to protect myself and family in other countries where large areas are uninhabited.

One of the reasons why we have not had a mass shooting terrorist attack in the UK is that it is so hard to get hold of the guns for it.

There are guns in the UK. We all know that, there are still shootings. However the majority of illegal guns on the street are handguns, and they are in the hands of gangs. They do the rounds; did anyone see that great documentary a month or two back, Gun 22 I think, which showed how the same handgun was basically being passed around within a gang and used by many different people?

Terrorists of any description in the UK will find it almost impossible to get their hands on one or some of the limited number of guns in the UK. Ergo we are fortunate so far that we have not suffered from a Mumbai or Christchurch style attack. We had London Bridge but they used knives, because they couldn't get their hands easily on guns.

I am proud to live in a country with such restricted gun laws.

I can't believe people fall for the argument that you might need a gun at home because the person robbing your house might have a gun. Yes - if guns are legal. I don't worry that someone robbing my house in the UK might have a gun, because so few people have. It's a ridiculous Catch 22 argument.

Strict rules have to be followed to get a gun licence in the UK. People with a criminal record can't get a gun licence. This acts as an incentive for some young people in rural areas to stay out of trouble with the police. I think stricter rules should also be applied to driving licences. We have 5 road deaths per day. If that many died from guns there would be an outcry. Drivers should have to be of good character and licences should be removed after any infringement. Currently we have a situation where people can commit as many driving offences as they like as well as having previous criminal records for violent crime, and keep their licence by claiming hardship, then they end up killing someone in a roadrage incident.

”if 6 year olds getting gunned down by weapons which fire 45 bullets a minute wasn’t enough to change things, nothing will.”

Exactly. This is why the rest of the world thinks Americans are completely bonkers when it comes to gun laws. How can any sane person hear about tiny children being massacred and not immediately do everything possible to prevent anything like that happening again, regardless of personal inconvenience?!

”I can't believe people fall for the argument that you might need a gun at home because the person robbing your house might have a gun.”

And unless you sleep with your fully-loaded gun under your pillow, you having a gun would be absolutely zero use to you in those circumstances anyway. If you are a responsible gun owner and keep yours locked away safely and not loaded, it is entirely pointless having it for protection.

What the fuck is this thread?!

Agree @bellinisurge with what you say about the US. The US context is completely different and their very different laws reflect that. I'm glad that in the UK we have the strictly controlled situation we currently have.

There are so many guns in private hands in the US. IMO this means that the legal prohibitions passed in the UK after Dunblane, in Australia after Port Arthur and, it seems to me, very likely to be enacted in New Zealand after the Christchurch shooting last week simply won't work in the USA.

That said there are laws that could help put some limits on the situation and due to the funding by NRA of politicians they haven't happened yet.

There are so many guns in private hands in the US. IMO this means that the legal prohibitions passed in the UK after Dunblane, in Australia after Port Arthur and, it seems to me, very likely to be enacted in New Zealand after the Christchurch shooting last week simply won't work in the USA.

The second amendment is the backstop to all gun laws in the US. No gun law can contravene the second amendment, and states that try to - and fail - end up having to recompense affected citizens.

Even the current checks and waiting times required in some states might be considered an infringement of the second amendment ... I don't think all state gun laws have been tested up to SCOTUS.

That said, the US constitution isn't immutable - although in hindsight banning guns rather than alcohol might have been a better demonstration.

I agree that there is limited use for a firearm in urban environments, however in rural areas a gun is a tool, no different to a chainsaw.

The SOLE purpose of a gun is to kill. It is NOT a tool. You dont chop trees with it. It is a fucking weapon!

Please never ever return to the UK with your messed up fucking ideology.

New Zealand seems to have a pretty clear plan in place to deal with the newly banned varieties of guns that are currently in private hands.

A transitional period in which people voluntarily surrender the weapons under a government buy back scheme following which possession of a military style semi-automatic will be a criminal offence. The changes were made via an "order-in-council" prior to being publicly announced to prevent people stockpiling these guns in advance.

Of course it won't account for every weapon of this nature but it will account for a significant percentage. I've never understood why Americans are so keen to decry solutions like this, preferring to do nothing at all than accept solutions which may allow a minority of guns to "slip through the cracks".

The SOLE purpose of a gun is to kill. It is NOT a tool. You dont chop trees with it.

Er,

I read what I thought was a good point about the difference between the UK and US views of guns.

In the UK, guns are bought and used with the expectation that they will never be used to kill a person - clays/targets/hunting are the only reasons people buy them.

In the US, guns are bought not just for hunting, but also for self-defence. So they are bought and used with the expectation that they may need to be used to kill a person.

Completely different mindset in how guns are viewed.

The 2nd Amendment in the US, while used and abused by all sorts of Tea Party types, is a fundamental part of US law. And lore. It is held up as a sacred right not to be pushed around by federal government or, invading forces - like the imperial British government from the early days of pre-independence North America.

. I know, I know, I know. But is a different country to the UK and it is for them to sort out. It is not for us to impose our views and values on the US on gun control.