Are gun laws U?

[Backwoodsgirl]

In light of recent attacks in NZ, the increase in knife and gun crime in the UK, shootings in the US and France. What do people think are reasonable options for weapons related laws?

It's clear that none on the current system around the world are perfect.

I am a Brit in the USA, and a gun owner, I also have a concealed carry permit. and I am interested to see what people see as reasonable.

I agree.

If we only discussed things on MN that the thread would have a tangible impact on most of the site would have to go. Not least because of how many posters on AIBU steadfastly refuse to accept that yes, they AIBU

I don't understand why explaining that there is a US perspective based on US historical experience is defending rampant gun ownership. I'm trying to explain that it is a complicated issue that our high minded sneering won't fix.
And in case you are still in any doubt, for the uk I am in favour of the strictest gun control possible.

And in case you are still in any doubt, for the uk I am in favour of the strictest gun control possible.

On the basis someone less than a mile from me managed to discharge a legally held handgun* less than 3 years ago, I think there's plenty of scope for UK laws to be made even tighter.

*I was taken aback too ....

Discharge in public, I meant ...

Some states are extremely strict.

Extremely strict compared with other US states? Or extremely strict compared to countries with sane gun laws?

3,143 children and adolescents were killed with guns in the US in 2016. 26% of those deaths were accidental. Death by gunshot is the second biggest killer of children in the US.

Justifying, or sorry "explaining", that on the basis of "historical experience" horrifies me.

edition-m.cnn.com/2018/12/20/health/child-gun-deaths-rising/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

And me telling you that Gun control in the US more complicated than it is here is somehow condoning child murder? Really?

"3,143 children and adolescents were killed with guns in the US in 2016. 26% of those deaths were accidental. Death by gunshot is the second biggest killer of children in the US. "

I can't decide whether it's more shocking that 817 children were killed by guns in accidents, or that 2,326 were shot deliberately.. It's unimaginable.

It isn't any more complicated than "there isn't the political or popular will to do anything about it". And the result is the death of children.

I totally understand where you are coming from on this. But if you were to have this conversation with a US gun owner - a legal gun owner- they would think you were being naive and preachy about something you do not fully understand. And surely the people whose minds we need to change are US gun owners and not random UK MNetters. Getting cross with me is pretty pointless .

Cars kill children. Cars are lethal weapons too.

Op, you are in the US. How can you possibly think that posters in the UK would have any thing to say that would be of use to the debate in the US.

Not a fair criticism at all. Bellini saying that the constitutional situation makes these arguments different in the US than anywhere else isn't remotely trying to justify 3000+ child, adolescent deaths.

The constitution matters, a lot. That's not the same as saying "nothing can be done" but it remains true nonetheless.

BTW does it say in the article what proportion of the total are suicides? there is a paywall or something so I can't read the whole thing. Just thinking that suicidal teens + ready access to firearms might account for a high proportion of those killed.

I worked in the US for several years and had plenty of conversations with real life gun owners.

Many of them felt overwhelmed with the scale of the task and despondent about the political will for real change (particularly given NRA lobbying and funding), but the vast majority were in favour of stricter gun control. Albeit I was working in a pretty liberal area.

They didn't think I was preachy or didn't know what I was talking about. After all I come from a country that does have strict control. They were mostly interested in the practicalities of enforcement and the impact on policing.

I'm not sure what the number of child gun deaths by suicide are.

I'm also my sure why children killing themselves with guns is any better than children being murdered or accidentally killed by guns.

As far as I'm aware there is evidence that suicide rates increase the easier it is to do. Hence why we restrict the amount of paracetamol that can be purchased in one location.

I'm very glad you have actually had this debate with actual US people in the US. I hope you spent time listening to them and understanding the issues and didn't waste time tacitly accusing them of condoning child murder when they explained the situation to you.

I would also be interested to know whether you spoke to people in the MidWest as well as to people on the coasts.

I live in the US at present, the Midwest, my DC have to do shooter drills at school. I firmly believe that the minority, and it is a minority of gun owners who feel that the status quo should be allowed to continue unchanged are accepting further child deaths.

@dreichuplands , I really hope so.

I don't know how anyone who actively campaigns against something which will save thousands of innocent children's lives actually sleeps at night. Can they actually hear themselves when they argue that historical context, livelihoods, culture, tradition, individual freedoms etc are more important?

I haven't personally heard either a republican supporter, or even a trump one including those who own guns say that there shouldn't be a background check on buying guns. They either own guns to hunt or for personal safety. They know they would pass checks so they are okay with them. It would only be a small step but I only see this being done in small steps.

Ironically, many of the same voices are anti Roe vs Wade to protect "babies".

East coast and South West.

If it's tacitly accusing someone of condoning child murder to say that prioritising your individual freedom to keep and bear arms because of "historical context" over the lives thousands of children and other innocents who are killed by those same weapons every year is abhorent, then I suppose I did.

As I've said, the majority of American I spoke to were sicked by the frequent school shootings, scared for their own children and keen for much stricter gun control laws.

That's not to say many wanted to go as far as the UK has, but support for background checks, federal databases to track gun sales and bans on certain types of weapons was far far more wide spread than I had expected. There's plenty of research to show the same - www.people-press.org/2013/01/14/in-gun-control-debate-several-options-draw-majority-support/

"Ironically, many of the same voices are anti Roe vs Wade to protect "babies"."

Quite. It makes my head explode!

I agree @dreichuplands , it can get only be done with small steps and it is naive to think it would ever be as restrictive as it is here (which I prefer btw before I get another salvo of intimations that I condone child murder)