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Donor consent law is being changed...

895 replies

flirtygirl · 16/03/2019 10:39

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

OP posts:
CostanzaG · 16/03/2019 12:07

Is necrophilia fine

A new low formerbabe

You're being deliberately goady

formerbabe · 16/03/2019 12:07

@SoupDragon

Of course necrophilia isn't the same as organ donation. I never said it was. But don't use the argument that it doesn't matter what happens to dead bodies because it absolutely does.

NoCauseRebel · 16/03/2019 12:07

For those sanctimoniously opining about opting out/in, you are entirely missing the point. If you actually believe that not opting out means that your body will be used then you are entirely mistaken. The key here is not that your body should be the property of the state unless you state otherwise, the key here is that everyone needs to have the conversation with their families in order that their wishes be known before they get to the point of needing to make that decision, in order that your wishes are more likely to be considered.

My family know my wishes, the state do not. And in the event of my untimely death,it will be my family who make the decision to donate my organs, it will not be presumed that. Am the property of the state. Ethically opt-out is an incredibly dubious road to go down, because it opens up avenues to all manner of other areas. Yes, right now not opting out could potentially mean that your organs are harvested without your next of kin being involved, but think about that for a minute. Let’s say that once opt-out comes into practice and next of kin wishes would no longer be taken into account, so when you are in that coma and pronounced brain dead the transplant coordinators can say “well, they’re not opted out of organ donation, so please say goodbye now,” and off you go to theatre with your heart still beating in order for your organs to be removed. Where does that end. Once the state have the ability to keep your body for your organs what is next? Scientific research? All body products become the property of the state at which point the next of kin are informed that “no, you can’t have the body back for a funeral, it belongs to the state by virtue of the fact that the patient did not opt out.”?

My family know my wishes to the letter. In the event of my untimely death my organs will still be considered for donation because they will make those views known. I am pro organ donation, I wish my organs to be donated, and yes, I have a condition which means I am likely to need a transplant in the future. But my wishes will be carried out in accordance with my family and not the state, and so I will be opting out.

Anyone who can’t actually grasp that fact is hard of thinking.

And in terms of not receiving if you’re not able to give, where does that end? “You won’t give your organs today so shouldn’t be allowed to receive one tomorrow? How about other illnesses? You had a termination therefore shouldn’t be entitled to IVF? It amounts to the same, no? You do sport therefore shouldn’t be entitled to Treatment for sports-related injuries? how about blood products? You don’t donate so shouldn’t be allowed a transfusion? How long do the medics have to check your ineligibility to be a blood donor before they allow you to have a transfusion? And how many lives would be lost waiting for that to happen?

Fortunately we make decisions based on need and not personal opinion.

Bishalisha · 16/03/2019 12:08

I am very happy this is now the case. I’m a registered organ donor and all my children are too.

They can take the lot from me when I pass. If my children decide otherwise for themselves when they get older then they can amend their registration

kaldefotter · 16/03/2019 12:08

Spiderbanana But currently you can actively opt in, and your family can override your wishes, and refuse to donate. So this would just be the reverse.

But you’ve given me something to think about. It may be wise to write and sign a document, to store with my will, that I am in favour of donating anything they can use (except my uterus). I really dislike the presumption of consent. But I am hugely in favour of donating, if I could. My family have known this since I was a teenager. I still think your NoK knowing your wishes is the critical issue here.

SoupDragon · 16/03/2019 12:10

Of course necrophilia isn't the same as organ donation. I never said it was. But don't use the argument that it doesn't matter what happens to dead bodies because it absolutely does.

Well, you did by trying to use it in the argument.

The point is that organ donation, whether by opt in or opt out, is done by consent.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 16/03/2019 12:10

That's an interesting perspective, HeadinherBooks, does that mean that if I opted out my next of kin couldn't override that option? I think I prefer your opt-in, opt-out version.

rubyroot · 16/03/2019 12:10

ttps://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2011-07-27/analysis-who-is-buying-our-donated-blood

We don't even know where the blood is being sold to. The NHS sold the blood collection to a US company in 2013. There's nothing they won't privatise and make a profit out of. Unfortunately, I think it is this which has motivated a change in the law. If I could be guaranteed my organs were not sold and used to make a profit or that they would be used on people who deserved them (there are moral issues here- how would you feel about your organs being used to save a rapist or a murderer) I would give my consent for them to be used.

But I do think it is quite scary that the state now owns our organs unless we opt out

formerbabe · 16/03/2019 12:11

The point is that organ donation, whether by opt in or opt out, is done by consent

Opt out is presumed consent.

Youshallnotpass · 16/03/2019 12:12

You’re dead... I don’t understand human obsession with what happens to your body when you are dead.

They can take every bit of my corpse if it gives life to others.

You are renting your body anyway, it’s not yours.

kaldefotter · 16/03/2019 12:13

Nocauserebel Hear, hear!

Youshallnotpass · 16/03/2019 12:13

^^ my point being opt out is better than opt in

LittleChristmasMouse · 16/03/2019 12:14

Opt out is presumed consent.

As is life saving treatment in the event that you are unable to consent. Unconscious patients taken into A and E aren't left to die because the doctor can't ask them for consent are they? Would you like that system to change too?

HardofCleaning · 16/03/2019 12:14

@rubyroot

That's ridiculous of course you won't get a say in who your organs go to (although it's highly unlikely to be a rapist or murderer). Then you'd have people saying they don't want their organs going to someone who is gay, or muslim or atheist.

formerbabe · 16/03/2019 12:15

You are renting your body anyway, it’s not yours

Don't talk pseudo inspirational clap trap. Who on earth are you renting it from anyway?

TacoLover · 16/03/2019 12:15

I believe anyone who opts out shouldn't be allowed an organ. If you're not willing to contribute then you shouldn't get to benefit.

I fully agree.

coffeeismyspinach · 16/03/2019 12:16

Organ donors do not 'die in theatre', please do not scaremonger.

It's just like a Brexit thread now! When people don't agree with you, they're scaremongering. Hmm

NoCauseRebel · 16/03/2019 12:16

Incidentally, those who receive donations are incredibly grateful for the gift that a family has made during their loved one’s last hours. I don’t know a single person who needs an organ who would feel comfortable with the idea of that organ being removed from someone whose wishes might not have been to donate but because they never got round to ticking a box was taken from them essentially in front of their distraught family.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 16/03/2019 12:18

It needs to be widely publicised.

I'd hate to be the one who tells a family that's about to be bereaved that the hospital has by law the right to take their loved ones organs. This is always a very difficult conversation and the change in law will make it even worse.

NoCauseRebel · 16/03/2019 12:18

Oh and the organ donation rate has actually dropped in Wales since opt out came into force.

Bringing in opt out has to happen in conjunction with huge amounts of awareness and focus on conversations with the next of kin, as has happened in countries like Spain.

greenpop21 · 16/03/2019 12:19

Fantastic news!

Youshallnotpass · 16/03/2019 12:19

Don't talk pseudo inspirational clap trap. Who on earth are you renting it from anyway?

Hmm It’s not pseudo anything, it’s science.

The atoms you are made from are swapped out all the time and when you die you will decompose and they become part of something or someone else on the planet.

Pinkbells · 16/03/2019 12:19

Far better that people are 'miffed' about having to put themselves out slightly to opt out than to have all the thousands of potential donors not donating because they didn't get round to fulfilling their wishes legally. Hmm

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 16/03/2019 12:20

Agree with everything NoCauseRebel said as well.

user1480000680 · 16/03/2019 12:20

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