Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

only 4% of eligible donors give blood

where does this stat come from? I think a lot of eligible donors are told they can't donate for lots of reasons eg I've been turned away at times for having low iron levels. If that forms part of the stats it's nowhere near as bad as it seems.

@Foldedenvelopes

I am so sorry for your loss. It is hard when we are debating principles to keep the human element of the discussion and your post reminds us all that at the other end of this there are just people like us who need our help.

Thank you for joining the discussion, it can't be easy.

However, we have tonnes of threads on here about consent in all areas of life and thankfully, modern thinking is that something shouldn’t be done ‘to you’ unless there is explicit consent.

If you get run over, or suffer a cardiac arrest, are unconscious and therefore can't consent presumably you think doctors shouldn't be allowed to step in to save your life then? Because you haven't been able to give explicit consent.

@Cherrysoup yes, I have. The Human Tissue Authority runs an up-to-date list of licensed medical schools which can accept bodies: www.hta.gov.uk/medical-schools

Also just to point out what is being proposed (and is already in place in Wales) is a soft opt out, therefore in reality relatives can still override your decisions

If this is the case, I can see no advantage to the change.

I agree with formerbabe. I was already opt-in and won’t opt-out, but I don’t like the idea of my organs being taken without my expressed consent. It is a personal, individual decision to give ones organs.
I hate this prevailing theme here that you are somehow a bad, immoral or selfish person because you object to the state taking ownership of your body because you are dead.

Taking organ donation to the next level, how would people feel if ovaries were included on a ‘opt-out’ list? Or in more extreme circumstances, how about face transplants?

@Eliza9917

If you read my other posts, I've answered that, but again, I'm pro organ donation. I'm not pro presumed consent

I've just registered on the Scottish one.

I expect trans women will be expecting to receive a donor uterus in a few years. The organ is then removed following a caesarean delivery.

How many of you would be happy with having your uterus harvested for this procedure?

Having been there for a few organ harvests (due to my career) I can honestly say that by the time the person goes to theatre to have their organs removed and die they are not aware. It's not usually the case of them being put to sleep, they are usually already under a lot of sedation or a lot of support.

Personally I have always been a donor since 18 and have made it clear to my husband and family that these are my wishes.

However I am also aware that the circumstances of being able to donate are pretty slim. When I go to tell relatives of a death etc one of the most common questions after the initial shock is can they donate their organs. People don't seem to understand that if someone is already dead we cannot use their organs. Like a pp said their has to be very specific set of circumstances.

Oh and to the pp that asked about if hospitals would 'give up' on elderly patients due to wanting their organs l can hand on heart say I have never seen anything like this. We are all held to the highest level to make sure our care can be justified at every step. A patients death is usually looked into to ensure that nothing else could have been done and no lessons could have been learnt. Obviously my experiences are anecdotal but all our patients mean a great deal to us and (this may sound awful) but usually elderly patients who are close to death have such degenerated organs that they wouldn't be suitable for organ donation anyway.

I hope that if my son ever needs a transplant this new law will make it easier for him to receive one.

Foldedenvelopes

I am sorry for your loss.

Thank you for sharing your story.

Cherrysoup Okay, so at least one (maybe two?) on this thread has said they wouldn’t donate. Many more are just expressing concern about a presumed consent system.

It’s worth bearing in mind that people can opt out and still donate, by making clear to their family that they want to donate. The key is that organs are then offered as a gift, not presumed to be owned by the state.

Under whichever system, it’s important that your family know your wishes.

I want to point out that with the opt out system you probably have more autonomy than before.

Currently, whether you have a donor card or not, your NOK will be asked and ultimately their decision would override whatever you had decided.

With the opt out system, if you have opted out, you are making clear the decision without having to rely on whether your NOK know and agree with your wishes.

I assume if you have opted out, NOK cannot donate your organs.

So if you feel strongly about not donating, you are probably better off with an opt out system.

Taking organ donation to the next level, how would people feel if ovaries were included on a ‘opt-out’ list? Or in more extreme circumstances, how about face transplants? Wouldn’t bother me, Socks. I’ll be dead. Why should I care what happens to any of it?
Also I’d like to know why coffee is so concerned to point out that ‘they’ die in theatre. I really can’t see why place of death matters to this debate.

Why do people enjoy get sanctimonious about organ donation but when a homeless person freezes to death, hardly an eyebrow is raised.

Tbh I wouod be very careful with that’s sort of comment.
The issue you have about the database being electronic and maybe thendics won’t be avk to access it and what if you move etc etc is EXACTELY the issue EU citizen have with the Settled status. But I dint hear many comments about how it’s being santominious. Nope they are usually told it will all be fine and there is no reason to worry.

The way I look at it is simple. Before, if you wanted to donate organs, you had to make sure you had told family members of your wishes. You had a donor card (one that I’ve carried with me for 20 years now).
Now the onus is on the person who does NOT want to donate to make their wish clear. Same system, same pressure, same ability to chose what you want or not. Just a different group of persons.

FWIW I’m happy to know that giving organs is a given norm if I die unexpectedly. Until now there was always the possibility it wouodnt happen because of family, docs not seeing the card etc.
I’m sure the people who do NOT want to give their organs can ensure their wish is known the same way I have made sure my wish to donate was known before.

Right. To answer OP’s questions on the date:

The new law, known as Max and Keira’s law, gained Royal Assent yesterday. That means it has passed through Parliament and been signed into law by the Queen.

The new law will take effect from April next year. As the link sets out, there will be a publicity campaign in the meantime to ensure that even those who missed the significant coverage in the news are aware.

ineedaknittedhat why would anyone have a problem with that?

@kaldefotter

Can NOk overrule ypu if you have opted out? That seems very wrong

I will be opting out.

Fuck them...is nothing sacred anymore?

Actually I agree with you, formerbabe. I think it's for my loved ones to make that decision, not the state. I expect they will want to donate any part of my body that can be of use to someone else, but it will 100% be their choice. They know of my wishes and are willing to make that call.

@coffeeismyspinach
Organ donors do not 'die in theatre', please do not scaremonger.
There are two types of organ donors:
DCD donors - death after cardiac death, these donors have treatment withdrawn whilst in ITU with consent from family, who are with them on passing. The donor is then taken to theatre after a 10 minute period in which the family says goodbye.
DBD donors - death after brain stem death: these donors are certified brain stem dead by two separate sets of tests by two doctors who have nothing to do with the donation process. They are are only still breathing due to a ventilator. I appreciate this might be difficult for the family to accept but they are technically dead in the eyes of the law.
There is so much misinformation around organ donation and I think we should welcome anything which gets people talking about it. The main reason NOK do not consent to donation is due to not knowing their loved ones wishes.

I don't think changing the system is going to make a huge difference to organ donation rates. My preferred system would be both opt-in and opt-out, in that there would be no presumptions made about consent, but people have the option to opt-in or opt-out, rather than just one of those options being available.

On balance I think I prefer opt-in to opt-out, but I am keen to donate my organs under either system.

Ethically however, my objection to opt-in is precisely that there is no opt-out. The state can already take your organs without your specific consent under the opt-in system. If your family say yes, that's that. You can think or say 'I don't consent' until you're blue in the face, but it won't make a difference, because the state have no way of knowing that you don't consent. The advantage of the new system, is that you CAN refuse consent.

Is necrophilia fine?

Yeah, because that is exactly the same as not opting out of organ donation 🙄

I think it's for my loved ones to make that decision, not the state

No, it should be your decision. You make that decision either by opting in (old system) or opting out (new system). The state hasn't decided for you, you still have the option to decide for yourself.

They can take of my body what they wish when I die, I will be dead so I will neither know or care.
If my organs help someone to live their lives, then I'm happy, including if a Tran wants to use my uterus. It is no use to me when I'm dead is it.
I would like to think that if a loved one of mine needed an organ to save their lives, then a deceased person had the goodwill to be an organ donor while they were alive.