Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

That's interesting @coffeeismyspinach :) my body is (as far as I know) pretty bog standard, but I've seen first hand how grateful students and researchers are to those who enable them to train and use their tissues to test drugs and surgeries. It's actually very moving, which is what convinced me that this is what I wanted to do.

Blood donations in Wales aren’t sold to
Anyone but hospitals.

I am already on the donot register and would merrily donate anything that might help someone else after I’m gone (apart from my eyes which, for some reason, I’m not comfortable giving away). However, it sits uneasily with me that we would assume consent. I think organ donation is a good idea but one which people should have to opt into.

Presumed consent used to apply to things we now find abhorrent, allowing medical students to perform pelvic exams on women who were under GA for having GYN surgeries, for example. After all, it was allowing the students to learn to do the exams without causing pain to the patient and they need to learn, that was the line of thinking, and the patient was already there, naked and had given consent for the surgeon to do this if necessary, so it wasn't thought to be wrong for a long time until well, people realised that it was wrong.

Donor, not donot 🙄

Do stop comparing blood donation/use to organs and tissue. They have no similarity

@havingtochangeusernameagain

AFAIK, there has not been a big increase in donations where people have gone from an opt-in to opt-out system.

This is why I would like an option to make your dr NOK for donation purposes.

As an aside, our blood can only really be sold abroad for research purposes as virtually no countries, including the US will accept British blood or organs because of CJD.

I can't donate blood where I live and they wouldn't take my organs either. I am just hoping they could be sent back to the UK for transplant if the situation arose.

I'm all for it.

This conversation serves as a good reminder of the importance of letting those around you know your wishes either way.

I think it's great news.

To be honest, I don't even think I care if they do sell surplus blood and organs if it puts cash back into the NHS. My husband has been in hospital for the past three weeks, he's had emergency surgery, blood transfusions and been in intensive care, and the longer you spend in these hospitals the more you notice how skint they are.

The inconsistency of the date is that the NHS website says 2020 April it comes into effect but news have reported it as coming into effect this week

The difference (as all the news reports I have seen make clear) it that the law was passed (ie received royal consent) this week, so it is now English law. However, the date it will come into effect (ie the date from which it will be applied) is April 2020. This is a common occurrence, that laws are passed which will only be applied from a future date, to give time for those affected to make necessary adjustments.

It means that you now have over a year to opt out if you wish to, so I don't think you can complain about lack of notice.

If you say that you will opt out of donating that means that you don't want to help someone else (which is your choice) but then if at the same time you are happy to receive an organ then you are saying that you refuse to help someone but want someone else to do what you weren't willing to do

But I am happy to donate my organs. I'm just not happy for it to be assumed that I will. I have strong feelings on how the state should be allowed to behave towards its citizens and I disagree deeply with this. People throughout history have died for their principles. I don't necessarily believe that saving lives trumps absolutely everything.

Should we also refuse blood transplants to people who don't donate blood? Because in the UK, only 4% of eligible donors give blood.

I know and 4% is an appalling figure. Yes, in an ideal world I would completely approve of that system however it's never going to happen.

I cannot believe people are comparing the sexual abuse of women, to organs being retrieved from someone who is DEAD AND DECLINED TO OPT OUT.

With that I'm bowing out because I'm sickened.

There aren’t usually shortages of most blood types

People aren't saying they want to refuse organs to certain people due to shortages. They're making an ethical argument. So the comparison is perfectly valid.

Not really. Your body reproduces blood if you are alive. It can’t grow new kidneys or hearts. It’s not comparable.

"I know and 4% is an appalling figure. Yes, in an ideal world I would completely approve of that system however it's never going to happen."

@DumpTrump in that case I would suggest you have more in common with Trump than your username suggests. Since when did the UK subscribe to the "you have to contribute to get healthcare" model that Trump is so fond of?

I also agree with formerbabe. I am hugely pro-organ donation and will definitely not be opting out.

However, we have tonnes of threads on here about consent in all areas of life and thankfully, modern thinking is that something shouldn’t be done ‘to you’ unless there is explicit consent. I don’t think organ donation should be any different. There should be an opt-in register that you are encouraged to join on your 18th birthday as a rite of passage.

how would you feel about your organs being used to save a rapist or a murderer) I would give my consent for them to be used.

And if everyone felt like that then no one would receive a transplant, including the many many innocent people.

You don't know who will receive a donated organ even in an opt in system.

I think that if you want to decide who is worthy enough of receiving your organ then you shouldn't donate.

For you it's a murderer or rapist, for others it will be a person of a particular race or religion. That is hideous.

I carry a donor card since I am 18, I am glad that the law changes and the piece of paper does not have to be hunted down.

Weaken it with allowing family to object is the wrong step in my opinion. If a person wanted to donate the organs, family should have no more say. That would mean they can say no to a will being made.

I will come back as a ghost and hunt everyone who objects against my wish.

If you had watched your child die unable to even hold them because they were too sensitive to touch to do anything but hold their hand when maybe, just maybe, if there were more organ donors things might be different some of you would think differently.

If you had watched your child die piece by piece. If you had seen your child change and no longer look like or be themselves when things could maybe have been different.

If you had seen fear etched on your child's face because they were scared of how it would end, the unknown, you would think differently.

If you had held your child while they sobbed because of the pain, the reality of everything was overwhelming, the reality of maybe not getting a Tx, of it not being a cure, of it not necessarily lasting very long, of jumping every time the phone rang, of spending at least 2 out of every 4 weeks in hospital and not being able to plan or do anything, of a chance of not making it through the operation - let alone the days/weeks/months to follow, of not being able to do anything by themselves, of being told nothing else could be done and treatment is being withdrawn you would think very differently.

If your child had apologised to you while tears ran down their face because they thought they were a burden you would think differently.

If you had sat next to your child willing them to take one more breath and panicking every time their breathing pattern changed you would think differently.

If you couldn't give your child one more hug, one more kiss, hear their voice one more time, tell them you love them ever again you would want everyone who could to be a donor.

If you have to hold your other DC while they breakdown because they don't know how to cope you would do anything to try to change things.

Why you wouldn't give others the chance of extra precious years is utterly beyond me.

I shouldn't have posted here, I should never have opened the thread. Don't know why I thought I could.

As a side note tissue donation such as heart valves can sometimes be donated up to 24 or 48 hours after death.

Also just to point out what is being proposed (and is already in place in Wales) is a soft opt out, therefore in reality relatives can still override your decisions.

I cannot believe people are comparing the sexual abuse of women, to organs being retrieved from someone who is DEAD AND DECLINED TO OPT OUT.

They die in theatre, Prequelle, they die in theatre! It is STILL their body!! The state is presuming consent to one's BODY. It's about the state presuming consent over how one's BODY is used!

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of presumed consent. It commodifies the body and takes away ownership. Whilst organ donation is a wonderful gift when freely given, the idea that organs can be taken unless one specifically says they can't is quite horrifying actually.

I shall opt my entire family out and then should the situation ever arise make a decision then.

I don't actually know if I'd accept a donated organ, I think I probably wouldn't.

@Lockheart all very laudable. I assume you’ve checked that your authority accepts donations of bodies? Because recently a friend’s relative’s body was refused. They didn’t have the space, which seems crazy. She’d always wanted to donate. Such a shame.

@kaldefotter I’ve seen at least one person on here say they wouldn’t donate or receive.

@Formerbabe You know about it and if you dont want to you can opt out

I didn't know about it actually.

I will be opting out.

Fuck them...is nothing sacred anymore?

Would you accept organs for you or yours?