Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

mydogisthebest "I don't really understand why someone would be against organ donation, unless on religious grounds, but if they are then they just have to opt out."

ah, hello! I asked this question earlier - some posters have mentioned religious grounds I think. So you understand religious reasons....how do you feel about people just personally wanting to be buried or cremated "whole" so to speak?

If you respect religious reasons, then any reason should be understood surely?

I’ve read through this whole thread, and having gone through the whole gamut of emotions have settled on just sad. This isn’t some random government conspiracy to take control of us, it’s a way of trying to save more lives. I genuinely don’t understand how this can be seen as anything other than a good thing....

I wonder if all these opting out will take all their worldly possessions and money into their coffins too at the end, it’s about as useful as taking your organs with you.

From www.organdonation.nhs.uk/supporting-my-decision/myth-busting/

"Is organ donation against my religion?
All the major religions in the UK support the principles of organ donation and transplantation and accept that organ donation is an individual choice.

These religions include:

Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Buddhism
Hinduism
Sikhism
If you would like more information please consult your religious advisor."

I respect an individuals right to choose, but personally I'll be dead, have whatever you need if it saves a life. I don't need my organs then!

@mydogisthebest said:

I don't really understand why someone would be against organ donation, unless on religious grounds, but if they are then they just have to opt out.

Some people have been involved with/affected by the consent or donor process being horrifically mismanaged and have been traumatised as a consequence (this is true of my DS). While they may be able to see that organ donation benefits the recipients, the price they have already paid it just too high for them to face it. Other people will have other reasons

The posters that annoy me are the ones saying they are presently on the register but will opt out when the new law comes in. As another poster said, this is like a toddler having a tantrum it's so childish.

I'll opt out, not because I'm childish, but to protect my DS from being 'encouraged' (pressured? That's how he'd see it anyhow) to honour my wishes. I hope that one day he'll be able to get past his issues with organ donation, but until then I'll protect him if I can.

My friend’s sister died unexpectedly 2 weeks ago. My friend agreed to donate her organs and said her final goodbye. There was then a series of postponements - no theatre available, no transplant team available. My friend couldn’t just leave her sister, the overall time taken was 36 hours, with 4 separate time slots given. 3 times my friend said her final goodbye.
After the 3rd postponement, my friend begged the hospital to just let her sister die.

That is why I want my family to decide if they want to go through that process.

I think most people's concern is that in the case of presumed consent- if you do not wish to donate and your family can't be contacted what will happen?
Let's be honest, the NHS's record keeping does not have the best reputation. Organ donation is very time sensitive, I think the rights of those who wish to opt out should be respected, which quite obviously many on this thread for example don't (comment's like if you don't want to donate you shoudn't get an organ, hugely simplify a massively complex issue)

Cocozmia
I said fate worse than death for me, read the whole post.

Organ donation is not a fate worse than death. Most people consider it brilliant and a gift and it should continue to be given as a gift and accepted as such.
There's nothing wrong with that way of thinking.

Presumed consent I have issue with. But also for me I know that I could not live with another part of someone else inside me and like I said on one of my early posts, this would cause mental health difficulties for me.

My quality of life after would be worse than it is now. I know this as I know myself well. The fact that the help for those with mental health problems is wholly insufficient and getting worse and the way the sick and disabled are treated does feed into this for me.

I would never trust larger society to take care of me, when my mental health is so damaged that I can no longer function. I would not trust them to take care of my children. The actions over the last 10 years that have led to the deaths of many vulnerable persons show me this even clearer.

But back to my point of it being a fate worse than death, it is for me it is. I would rather spend the time with my loved ones and be allowed to die, if me not taking an organ leads to my death.

Other people make other decisions for themselves and I fully respect their decisions and choices and I should be accorded the same right.

Medical intervention at all costs is something I will never agree with. And yes I do visits drs and specialists and medical progress is great, vaccinations are mostly great, but there are points when life is prolonged with no thought to the quality of life.

I am not against organ donation but I am against presumed consent as its a slippery slope. Someone said up thread that's what to stop the government 10 years from now, withdrawing the opt out as it for the "greater good" ?

I have talked with my children all weekend and one daughter has said that she does not mind giving organs but would not want to receive one. The other has no opinion as yet but we will always discuss this and bodily autonomy is important to me. They obviously know my beliefs and why I belief them.

If Im ever in that position and they continue to agree with me then they would also not receive organs. However if they make the choice that they do want to receive one then their right to bodily autonomy trumps my opinions and my beliefs.

My organ came from a man so same sex is not true. Blood group needs to be the same though.

Please listen to experts like @spiffing and another poster up thread instead of making things up.

I'm truly overwhelmed by some of
the responses on here and AGAIN it's your choice if you don't want to donate OPT OUT!

Donors are hero's and #shareyourwishes

I am not against organ donation but I am against presumed consent as its a slippery slope. Someone said up thread that's what to stop the government 10 years from now, withdrawing the opt out as it for the "greater good" ?

What's to stop them withdrawing the opt out tomorrow?

All this ridiculous posturing! Ok we get it - you are all very clever and have had conversations in your head about 'presumed consent' well done ! What excellent and superior people you must be. However I DONT GIVE A FUCK for all your nonsense. My sisters baby needs a heart. She is 6 months old and will die in the next 2 months without one. Do I care about your poor didums little issue with implied consent ? He'll no. It's a load of fucking nonsense you can think about when you are not in the position of literally watching your niece die .

All I care about is that this way round - the pool from which to get a heart expands, and with that the percentage chance of a match increases . That is actually all that matters and when it happens to you formerbabe and a doctor rings you at 3 in the morning to say they have the heart to save your child - will you say 'thanks mate but first can I check , did the owner give informed or implied consent ? ' 'oh - only implied ? So sorry, can't accept then' ... bollocks would you

@BoneyBackJefferson
So you would rather see an organ go to waste than to someone that needs it due to your moral values?

Absolutely, totally and utterly NOT what I said or what I think, how did you come to that conclusion?? But rarely is there only one person awaiting a donated organ is there so it's highly unlikely it is ever going to go to waste unless it is found to be unusable for some reason and then it can't really be classed as going to waste. I am not even debating that point. I am asking about the thought process behind saying "You can't have my organs, but I reserve the right to have yours if I need it and the NHS policy allows me to think that selfishly".

GottaGoGottaGo

It may be not what you meant but it is my perception of how you are coming across.

The NHS is open to all no matter what their personal preferences or views. As soon you change that you are on a slippery slope.

How many "mistakes" would have to be made before people realise that presumed consent is a bad idea.

I believe that some religions don't agree with organ donation and, if that is true, then obviously I respect anyone of that religion if they refuse to be a donor.

I can also understand that some people just don't like the idea of their organs being taken out and/or the idea of them being in another person's body. I don't agree with that view but can respect that others do.

I think maybe some people make the excuse about religion. A previous poster a few pages ago said Christians don't agree with cremations. Sorry but that is rubbish. I am Christian as are many of my friends and family and we all want to be cremated

I don't get this whole 'need to consent' and not liking the 'presumed consent' thing. The whole point is you don't need to consent - you are dead. Unless you are donating your body to medical research (so they need the organs) or possibly for certain religious reasons there is absolutely no need not to.

Just because you are on the list does not mean someone is going to break into your house in the middle of the night and start harvesting your organs for the black market!

The idea that someone would rather have their organs rot in the ground or burned on cremation rather than used to help others when they are of no use to you (because you are DEAD) is so ridiculous.

A previous poster a few pages ago said Christians don't agree with cremations. Sorry but that is rubbish. I am Christian as are many of my friends and family and we all want to be cremated

It was me who posted that. I didn't say that all Christians object to cremation. I said that the Christians that I know would never agree to be cremated. My experience of churches is exclusively of the more conservative end of things, because of my upbringing and where I live. I've never been to a cremation in my life because I've never known anyone to be cremated.

@BoneyBackJefferson
And that's STILL nothing to do with what I am asking. How can I put it any clearer? I don't care what the NHS policy is, I don't care who the heck they decide to give it to. I am not interested in any aspect of who actually ends up with the organ or any policy decisions.

I am asking what makes people feel that they are morally correct in their decision not to donate but then also feel that they are entitled to receive one if they need one? IRRESPECTIVE of what the NHS policy is or is not!!

@cornishmaid1 but just because you “don’t get it” doesn’t mean others views aren’t valid or shouldn’t be listened to or enabled. One of the key things about living in a democracy is that we should all be able to express our views.

@GottaGoGottaGo

but people have already explained why they think how they do.

I don't get this whole 'need to consent' and not liking the 'presumed consent' thing. The whole point is you don't need to consent- you are dead.

In my case I don't believe that you're dead at the point they want to take your organs. I wish I did believe it, but I don't. So when I'm actually dead, clinically dead, or whatever the correct term is, they can have what they like. But until then, hands off. And I know that reduces viability, so understand why they want them earlier. But I just can't get away from the fact that I don't believe 'brain stem dead' is actually dead. Sorry I just don't.

@BoneyBackJefferson
but people have already explained why they think how they do.

No they haven't, they keep spouting "because the NHS have a policy of no discrimination". Just because the NHS have such a policy, it does not explain why people morally think they are entitled to receive an organ even if they are saying they aren't willing to donate. I personally feel it's a morally awful way to think and I'm hoping to gain some genuine insight and not "just because the NHS says I can and I'm going to take advantage of that". It just seems terribly selfish to me, the whole "I want to take but I won't give" attitude which feels rather like a toddler who wants all the other childrens' toys and doesn't want to share, even though they don't even want the ones they already have. But maybe there is a good reason, and I'd like to understand!

@smallereveryday - that must be so painfully difficult for you and your family. You obviously won't be able to think beyond that personal example, but for me and others this is about wider logic and consequences.

Life is horrible and unfair, but consent is important and so are precedents on setting it in law - all the more so when one side refuses to listen to objections.

Our wishes about our own bodies after death should be respected in a modern society. It doesn't matter why - whether it's superstitious nonsense, or "sticking it to the man", or a fear of not really being dead; other people still should have rights, whether you like them or not.

(Also @GottaGoGottaGo I've talked about your question upthread, I won't copy and paste or repeat myself as that's frowned on here, but have a look?)

I agree with bollocks
I am very uncomfortable with the thought of my organs being taken from my body when I am still attached to ventilators.
I just don’t think we know enough about consciousness for me to be happy for that to happen to myself of a loved one.

I really wish I did but it makes me get all sweaty and sick thinking about it.

@NopeNi,
Thank you for your reply, I had a search, and found a couple of your replies. If I am right in my understanding though, and I found the right post, you are saying you feel the whole organ donation thing a bit creepy and I can understand and totally respect that, but from what you were saying, you feel the same about it both ways i.e. you're not sure you would want to receive one either. So aren't really one of the crowd who are saying "I'm definitely NOT giving mine, but if I need one, then I am entitled to receive one because the NHS policy says I can!". Unless I've missed a different post, in which case, please would you do a sneaky copy & paste and I'll take being frowned at!

NopeNI
You obviously won't be able to think beyond that personal example, but for me and others this is about wider logic and consequences.

Can you please explain to me how this is even an issue unless it's 'personal' ???

If you are not in a position of need it is NEVER going to affect your life ! In which case the entire stance is illogical. It's pointless to 'theorise' from a standpoint that 'requires you to look beyond it'. There is no 'beyond' anything when your child is dying.

If it's never 'personal' it's not a discussion you will ever need to have.