Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

If you’re willing to have a blood transfusion/would want your child or family member to have one then you should be willing to donate blood.
If your willing to accept any part of another person for yourself it a family member then you should be willing to donate.

Biological sex is essential for donation

How can that be correct? Husbands and wives donate organs as living donors. If biological sex is essential then that couldn't happen.

I welcome this 100%.
My cousin died due to a rare liver disease, a donor could have saved him but by the time he got to the right place on the list, he was too weak for the surgery. He was 39.
My family has been campaigning for an opt-our ever since.

How can that be correct? Husbands and wives donate organs as living donors. If biological sex is essential then that couldn't happen.

I work in this area. There’s an enzyme that is present in female blood if they are ever pregnant. Because some women would miscarry without ever realising they were pregnant blood from females is never given to patients with certain conditions, because that enzyme is bad news for them. So only male blood is used to make those blood components. And so on and so forth.

And some of us don’t believe we belong to the State, in life or death. It’s not sticking two fingers up to the State but where does it end. Your consent is being eroded away in life and in death

Of course it's all about sticking it to the state, and of course you won't be told what to do, how dare they come up with a system which could mean more people getting the organs they need, what a bunch of arseholes

@SpeakUpXXWomen it is equally important that a wish to remain physically whole for whatever reason is respected.

But you don't remain whole for long....you got or you burn...

MoreSlidingDoors

But that doesn't apply to organ donation surely? Isn't that what we are talking about here with regards to opt out?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=link&linkname=pubmed_pubmed&uid=27471591&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pmc

More research information on why sex matters to donation for anyone interested.

But that doesn't apply to organ donation surely? Isn't that what we are talking about here with regards to opt out?

It does with certain conditions. Some people couldn’t accept a female organ. So they absolutely are sexed.

I don't think anyone is disputing sex matters in medical situations.

The doctors will have the person, their relatives and records in front of them though.

Choosing to opt out of declaring your sex on a form is irrelevant as all the medical history will be right there.

Actually there is no entry for sex on the form at all is the problem I am pointing out.

Sex and Gender have been conflated to the neglect of correct data handling. They were once considered fairly interchangeable terms but now mean very different things. The erosion of sex as a data marker is quickly working it's way through the NHS and clearly this could lead to errors as well as impacting research like the type I linked to above.

Your organ donation status is a part of your medical record so should reflect sex accurately. There should be no room for error.

I know mine, and my children's organ donation status when we registered at the doctors, where they have all of our correct medical information. The hospital also have our medical information.

Nobody will rely on some online form, which could have all manner of mistakes made on its from old address to former names to spelling mistakes, and take what's written in it as gospel.

You're trying to turn this into a debate about transgender people, this really isn't. The correct people have the correct information at the correct time.

How will the NHS manage the costs if there is a massive increase in the number of organs donated? They'd need a much bigger budget.

I'm of the opinion that we have 'a time to live and a time to die' so I definitely wouldn't wish to receive organs from a donor. I feel there is so much emphasis on keeping people alive at all costs and not enough focus on the quality of people's lives.

I would prefer that more money was put into providing joint replacements and cataract surgery to improve the quality of life for the elderly than into organ transplant surgery.

You're trying to turn this into a debate about transgender people

Nope just pointing out that sex matters, a very current conversation in Scotland this month thanks to the excellent work of Joan McAlpine MSP and others. We have been publicly debating the inaccuracies and errors surfacing as a result of data erosion due to sex/gender conflation.

The correct people have the correct information at the correct time.

You hope!

Nope just pointing out that sex matters

again, in this instance it doesn't because it's an online form not filled out by medical professionals, medical records will reflect everything they need to.

I know all about the trans debate, I know all about whats happening in Scotland this week, and have lived with the reality of a transgender family member and all that entails for around 8 years now so there is pretty much nothing that you could tell me about the whole thing (however I could teach you a few things no doubt).

This is not a trans debate. This is about organ donation.

@isabellerossignal.

So if someone came into the hospital unconscious smeared in feaces.. the staff wouldn’t clean them because they can’t give consent?

I am pro organ donation and I also agree with the opt out system, but I also think it’s someone’s right to opt out.. however I think if you opt out of giving, you should opt out of receiving and if you have opt’d out of both then you shouldn’t blasted for that. We all have different beliefs.

People saying there's been no information about this - it's only just become law. It would be a different campaign before it became law. There is no guarantee a bill will become law, even though in many cases, it does just seem a formality. Now there's a year before it goes into effect, and that’s when there should be an information campaign. (Whether that will happen, who knows with the way government currently is.)

I have carried an OD card since I got my provisional driving licence as a teen. I've given blood every time I can since I was 18. Can’t currently because of meds I'm on; suspect that were I to be run over and die tomorrow, my organs wouldn't actually be much use to anyone, either, but that would be a medical decision, not mine.

They can have any part of me except my eyes, which is reflected in the ODR. I have no rational reason for this at all. I've had my eyes lasered before, but if that would be a barrier (I assume not; I can see through them,) I have made no effort to find out. It's an entirely emotional decision. So I'm not in any position to criticise anyone else's views on donation - besides which, there are all sorts of reasons for not donating. The main thing is to have thought it through for yourself.

The most important thing is to talk about it with your families, especially whoever is NoK, while it's all theoretical rather than at a hospital bedside. It doesn't matter if it's opt in or opt out, whether you are a would-be donor or not; what is important is that your NoK know where you stand on it. My sister (my NoK) knows I carry a donor card, as I know she does. We also knew our mother's views on organ transplants, which meant that when she was in ICU and a possible treatment down the line could have been transplant, we could both confidently say she wouldn't want it. (As it was, she never recovered to a point it would have been feasible anyway.)

While you're talking about organ donation, please also make sure you have a will, particularly if you have strong views on what sort of funeral you'd like. That will also be helpful to those left behind, whether it's decades, years, months, weeks or days away.

Just talk about it together. Let each other know your wishes when you don't need to know.

Deadpoet why should my views influence whether a family member could receive a blood donation or transplant?

I don't give blood and never will (severely needle phobic so not out of choice, they wouldn't have me) so why does that mean DH couldn't have a blood transfusion?

What a dangerous attitude.

@BreakYourselfAgainstMyStones

Thanks for your reply, but that's not really what I was asking, I probably didn't word it very well, sorry. I was more asking that irrespective of what the NHS policy is (one based on non-discrimination), why do people personally feel that it's okay to receive but not to give? How can they justify the kind of thinking of "I don't want to donate my organs to save someone else (for whatever reason) but if I need one, I should be able to have one?". It just feels morally wrong to me to expect help if you aren't willing to help and I was hoping someone could explain it.

@BoneyBackJefferson
why do you think that this sort of discrimination is ok?

I don't think discrimination of any sort is okay and I'm not saying the NHS should have a policy of discrimination, that would be wrong. What I am querying is why does someone who wants to opt-out think it's okay to take advantage of the non-discrimination policy? It's okay to choose not to give but it's not okay for the NHS to turn round and say in that case you can't receive. It feels so selfish and wrong to want it both ways. I feel that if you don't want to donate, then opt-out and it's all fine, I don't understand the decision, but I'm not going to judge you. If you don't want to give someone else your organs for whatever reason when you die, fine, that's your decision. But then it's morally wrong to expect someone else to donate to YOU when they die. Why should you have it both ways?

Really not trying to start an argument, I just genuinely can't understand the thought process of "I don't want to give but I demand my right to receive" and would like to. More understanding of another's viewpoint makes for a more tolerant society.

Really not trying to start an argument, I just genuinely can't understand the thought process of "I don't want to give but I demand my right to receive"

But, tbf, you don't have to understand the process of how other people come to those decisions because you build policy on principles not individuals.

Why do you care anyway? You’ll be deaf.

I am a registered donater Yeah. Does that preclude me from thinking we should build policies on principles about autonomy of the body and not black and white thinking about who deserves to get what from the nhs?

GottaGoGottaGo

So you would rather see an organ go to waste than to someone that needs it due to your moral values?

I've read through the whole thread, and overnight a thought experiment grew in my brain:

Post mortem presumed consent is, I think, the thin end of the wedge.

What if your post-mortem financial state became a presumed consent that if you had not opted-out (or "refused" as the form emotively puts it) and specifically made a will, all your assets became the property of the state? After all you'd be a "selfish cunt" not to approve of the good that that could do to those in greater need.

What if, (as we follow the logic that your corpse can and should continue to do good post mortem) the state decided that we were all just the sum total of the proteins and fats that we are composed of and recycled our otherwise worthless remains into unidentifiable but valuable nutrition? What "selfish cunts" we'd be for not wanting ourselves or our loved ones to sustain those who might be in a famine. How much good our worthless corpses could do for humanity!

On the whole, I feel that organ donation should always be a gift freely given so that the recipient knows this and has no qualms about the lack of consent of the donor.

I don't really understand why someone would be against organ donation, unless on religious grounds, but if they are then they just have to opt out.

The posters that annoy me are the ones saying they are presently on the register but will opt out when the new law comes in. As another poster said, this is like a toddler having a tantrum it's so childish.