Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

OK, I understand what you're saying.

Overall, my real objection is to government signing folk up for something they've not actively agreed to ... pointless in any case, since in the circumstances where donation's a possibility, the team will almost certainly bring it up with the NOK anyway

Well, that's the thing, currently where someone is on the ODR the family is far, far more likely to go ahead than if they weren't on it. Which is where this idea stems from - if those high rates of NOK consent continue with an opt-out system then it could make a big difference to the number of organs being made available.

perhaps even more likely (to object) if they feel in their distress that their loved one was "forced into it

It will be interesting to see whether this is the case. The evidence from countries with an opt-out system suggests that it won't be, but much will depend on the skill and sensitivity of the person who approaches the family.

This is such an emotive subject. Where I live (not mainland England) we have just been debating the 'opt-out' option, and it will become law. I'm concerned people are saying 'the state own your body in an opt-out system'. Surely that's only if (and it's a big if for the majority of people?) you have no NOK? Because they can still go against the presumed consent? (TBH I'd be really cross if my NOK went against my wishes to donate - they know that's not what I want, if anything I've got is useful to anyone else after I'm dead under the very limited rules involving organ donation.)

But I still fail to see how - if you fit the, frankly quite narrow considerations for donation - you can object to donation? The likelihood is actually very slim because they have to be so careful as regards the health of the organs they accept. I have been a blood donor/on the Anthony Nolan register and the organ donor list since I was old enough to consent in my own right. Now, my DC (after a lot of debate as a family) and my DH have also given consent. When any of us die we would like to save someone's life if we can.

We are also Catholics, but see no problem with organ donation. A family member, who was a 40-day-smoker at the time, aged 50 - only has one kidney (she had to have one removed in the late-70s, due to a medical issue no one could have predicted) but is now still alive and well at nearly 90 - no "10 years off her life" here - so thinking the OP's Aunt must have had other health issues if she was given that warning?)

My DCs are adults, but I registered them with their consent when they were under 18. They know what that means. Now, where we live is going to a 'presumed consent' system, but that's fine. Not a moment too soon.

I wish the people scaremongering would stop. I note that no one who is anti-presumed-consent has had the decency to reply to @Foldedenvelopes. Isn't that interesting... nothing to say? Nothing in reply to someone who's been through the hell of watching their child die apologising for the fact their body had let them down?

Frankly, you should be ashamed.

I believe in life after death, for goodness sake, and I've had a donor card since I held my first driving license! When I'm dead, it's not about my body, it's about my soul.

So do all those objecting on religious grounds, object to cremation too?

Most of the Christians I know wouldn't entertain the idea of cremation. Although I don't know of any who object to organ donation. But they do object to egg and sperm donation.

I'm fully in agreement with the opt out system. I'm on the register and I think I would agree to donate my next of kin organs should the unthinkable happen.
A friend lost her parent suddenly and they donated her organs and she said it made a dreadful situation that little bit less dreadful knowing that others were hopefully helped.
However I do agree that receiving an organ should be based wholly on need. Not on wether you've opted out or by default ypu are in. Anything else would just create even more resistance to opt in. I don't understand why anyone would opt out but I support their right to do so.

If you dont consent to being an organ donor, then opt out. It's that simple.

They're not going to hide the fact you're automatically enrolled to be a donor. So if you dont want to be, you dont have to be. Opt out.

But you can be fined for refusing to register to vote.

Technically, but it practice it doesn't happen. Let's just round up all the rough sleepers with no fixed abode and fine 'em otherwise.

If someone opts out then the doctors won’t have to have an unwelcome conversation with the nok they simply won’t ask. If not opted out the conversation can go they didn’t choose to opt out did they discuss donation/ do you know how they feel etc.

Resistance to automatic opt in - I should have said.
Mind you I'm a Christian and have no objection to organ donation, cremation or egg/sperm/embryo donation either. Any afterlife would involve my spirit not my physical body and quite frankly I'm not looking for an eternity with this creaky old pile of bones!

As someone who’s young child will need a life saving transplant at some point in the not too distant future, I am sickened by some of the things I’ve read on this thread. To all of you opting out so the ‘state’ don’t go harvesting your organs I’m sure you’ll be glad when you’re dead.... oh wait no you won’t. You’ll be dead. Along with my child.
So if you think you’re sticking it to the man by opting out, you’re not. You’re sticking to all the people lying in hospital beds taking their last breaths waiting for organs.

currently where someone is on the ODR the family is far, far more likely to go ahead than if they weren't on it ... if those high rates of NOK consent continue with an opt-out system then it could make a big difference to the number of organs being made available

Yes, I absolutely accept this; it just becomes a question of whether the ends justify the means, and the means are something I'm very uncomfortable about

MrsFrankDrebin before lashing out, maybe consider that some of us might have considered the case so emotive that we PM'd Foldedenvelopes ... ?

I think it's bizarre that people are talking about 'the state', when really this is about doctors and nurses - people just like you and I! - trying to find more ways to save people. I can't see how that is sinister, and every single person has the right to opt out. This thread has been an eye-opener.

So if you think you’re sticking it to the man by opting out, you’re not. You’re sticking to all the people lying in hospital beds taking their last breaths waiting for organs.

I'm sorry, I really am. I watched my child struggle and die after a failed transplant, but I would never in a million years equate people who do not donate their organs or their blood or any part of their bodies to being complicit in the death of another person because that is simply untrue and patently unfair and I think if anything, it's language like this that causes resistance, sadly. They are not the killer, the disease is and again, there are those, including on this thread, who elect to donate their bodies to medical research into diseases which are killers rather than donate their organs to recipients. It is as valid a choice as organ donation, IMO.

Bravo, TiredSloth. That's exactly it. Anyone refusing to donate something they won't need on account of being fucking dead is an incredibly selfish human being.

@coffeeismyspinach I'm sorry to hear about your child

But a transplant that failed is a still a transplant tried. What if that person had opted out and your child had no transplant at all. It's the concept of trying to save someone's life that counts. It may not always work, but its tried.

I do agree with you on the attitude of the PP, although as she has a child who is in this situation also, I can understand her frustration.

My heart goes out to you both

They can take as much of my body as they like when I’m gone. Personally I feel it’s quite beautiful that a part of me (whether that’s heart kidney etc) will give someone the opportunity of life and hopefully a very small part of me will also live on in their gratitude for the organ they have received.

Anyone refusing to donate something they won't need on account of being fucking dead is an incredibly selfish human being.

Even if they are, they are not killers in any way. The likelihood is, too, that their organs might not be suitable, anyhow. I'm a regular blood donor and on the organ donor registry, but I smoke and drink too much, so it's likely at least some of my organs, were I to die under the right circumstances, would not be suitable to donate. I feel that those who elect not to donate have their reasons and I respect them fully, whatever they are. It is their body and their right to do as they see fit with it (including, and I wish it were so, right to die).

NopeNi would not happen. My son has been a donor since he got his provisional driving licence and as a Dr knows the benefit of organ donation. If as a child he was on the point of dying we would have offered his organs as we are bith registered donors. With grandchildren not my decision but know his wife is also registered. If you are not prepared to give you should not receive - the organ will not go to waste as there are more people needing than organs than are available. Different if there was a surplus where no need to ration but doubt there will ever be a surplus.

I certainly would not consider cremation but I am not going to impose my views on others. If you want cremation have it. If you want to burn the body outside, if you need to bury it within 24 hours etc etc - let all these different kinds of people do their own thing.

What if that person had opted out and your child had no transplant at all.

Until the last minute, that was a possibility. But again, I was never of the opinion that anyone should feel obligated to donate and that it should always be a gift and had counselling to make peace with that beforehand because it can and does happen. It was her disease that killed her, and there have been times when I regret going through with the transplant as she had zero quality of life and much pain and sickness before her death v. perhaps having been able to enjoy some normality before her death had she not had it. It's entirely irrational as of course any parent would punt for transplant if possible. I certainly understand anger, but I don't think it's fair or right to equate people who don't donate with the disease that caused her to need the transplant in the first place. My ire is reserved for the lack of research into the disease and its treatment.

This is an interesting article www.ukcolumn.org/article/no-time-to-die

Yes, I absolutely accept this; it just becomes a question of whether the ends justify the means, and the means are something I'm very uncomfortable about

As someone involved in transplant, I'm not completely convinced myself.

If as a child he was on the point of dying we would have offered his organs

However sure one is of one's convictions, I think it's unfair to say this unless you have actually been there . I think it also heaps pressure and guilt and morality on loved ones in this situation when they are already at an emotional red line, tbh.

I have no problem taking /harvesting from me when I dor ,but I'm very squeamish when it comes to my eyes !

die !

@Seniorcitizen1 but imagine (if you're able to) that this was the case - you'd still let your son die? Your grandkids die?

Unfuckingbelievable.

There are monsters on this thread but it's not the ones unsure about organ donation.