To think the world has a big white supremacy problem?

[GardenVariety]

Is anyone actually surprised that this has happened? It is shocking and sickening, but let’s face it, it has been so acceptable for so long to vilify muslims, to abuse muslims, to attack muslims - politicians have made careers out of this. Is it any wonder that yet another white supremacist has murdered muslims and has received praise for doing so by keyboard warriors on various platforms.

I (and most muslims in the West) have been dealing with the aftermath of 9/11 by being held responsible for every terrorist atrocity. Dealing with knee-jerk reactions and responses became the norm for me since then. Every terror attack, grooming ring, extremist preacher became my responsibility to explain, condemn and apologise for. I was asked why muslims don’t put double-page ads in the paper to apologise and condemn. I was told that I shouldn’t be surprised at the hostility towards muslims because the few give everyone a bad name.

So here I am, wondering if those people (all white) who were quick to vilify my religion and me and demanded an apology and explanation for the latest newspaper headline will now explain today’s headlines to me. Will they explain why white people do this? Will they give me a full breakdown of his manifesto, explain each name listed on the white terrorist’s guns, explain the choice of music on the video, explain why he filmed it, explain why he had so much support (white terrorist supported by other whites, therefore all whites must be terrorists) and take out ads in national papers apologising for being white. After all it was a white person who did this and just like all muslims were held accountable, will all whites be held accountable too?

Why is this being phrased as 'white supremacy'?

Why are people objecting to him being called a white supremacist or far right or alt-right?

Why is this being phrased as 'white supremacy'?

Why are people objecting to him being called a white supremacist or far right or alt-right?

I know what you're saying, but it does help to get the definitions straight. I sat in the middle of a huge dingdong in the pub a few months back because of a misunderstanding along these lines between two people who basically agrees with a huge other.

In the case of "white supremacy", it's a phrase that wasn't being widely used in this sense five years ago, so it doesn't hurt to explain and define terms to help people understand each other.

easyyolktoo.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/white-supremacy-visual.jpg?w=660

It’s US centric but a good starting point as a white supremacy definition.

I am happy to get the definitions straight. I'm wondering what the objection is to him being called a white supremacist.

"Why are people objecting to him being called a white supremacist or far right or alt-right?"

It depends what you are trying to do.

I had a look at Paul Golding's FB page. I think he is a probably what you would call an identikit white racist, one on a long line of fascist leaders.

But everything he is saying is about Islam. Sure he says 'we're opposed to mass immigration', but he follows that with 'radical Islam'.

He's not talking about Jamaicans (he defends 'the Windrush generation').

I don't think he's very different from a 1960s racist in his motivations, but the focus is only on Islam.

It's not particularly useful to disregard this

It’s US centric

I think there's always a lag. It took me the longest time to get my head around the word "woke".

Of course, there are lot of straight up bigots around too.

Well, I think there is a link between say Jo Cox's murderer, the murders at the Synagogue, Charlottesville and this.

To me it looks like white supremacists.

Calling it Islamaphobia seems to say that the only object of hate for these far-right nutters are the muslims. Most of us know thats not true.

PeeGreen, what are you getting at? Are you saying that ideology of muslims is the issue in that this white supremacist only targetted muslims?

The idea that anti-semitism and islamaphobia are now springing from the same movement is something I really struggle to understand.

I sometimes feel that the world up to 2000 made sense, and since then everything's taken a turn towards evil.

Sorry, that's probably not very helpful. It's just all very scary.

My take on white supremacy is that it has had an issue with every single non-white race throughout history.

Recently, there has been a white supremacist attack on black people in a church, jews in a synagogue, charlottesville and now this. There have been several more in between which I linked to earlier.

Their target just changes from time to time. Today they are going after muslims, make no mistake, tomorrow they will go after someone else, be it jews or blacks or a different minority.

To think the world has a big white supremacy problem?

I agree. In fact a remember when a recent terrorist attack was reported my first thought was 'far right' had it been two years ago, maybe even one year ago, my first thought would have been 'Islamist'.

As for this -

So here I am, wondering if those people (all white) who were quick to vilify my religion and me and demanded an apology and explanation for the latest newspaper headline will now explain today’s headlines to me.

I have always thought other Muslims, absolutely should march against, campaign, shout loud, 'Not In My Name'. Drowned out the sound of hate, fill it with friendship, create groups and networks of anti extremism organisations for muslims to join. I think exactly the same about white people and anti racist, anti far right groups, we should all join and shout, march, demonstrate, 'Not In My Name'. So, OP I am already a member of an anti racist group, if there is a march to show solidarity I WILL join if I can. As for being responsible and apologising, yes I am a little bit responsible, I could have done more to shape society for the better and I am sorry for the way some white people think.

Their target just changes from time to time. Today they are going after muslims, make no mistake, tomorrow they will go after someone else, be it jews or blacks or a different minority.

Yes, yes. I think that is so.

Misti. Sorry- been night here in Oz. When I say that Moslems are tight, I mean they tend to be a close knit community. Not mean with money! I knowin our nearest city, the Moslem community tends to live in the North East suburbs, for example. I may be being racist here, again, but I think being a close knit community who have each other’s backs, with religious and culture in common is a good thing. Understandable too in a country where Islam can be regarded with suspicion and discrimination.

I think saying 'Muslims are tight' is a ridiculous, stupid, stereotypical and embarrassing observation and obviously doesn't apply to the 1.5 billion Muslims across the world - some of whom get on, some of whom don't - just like people of other religions and races oddly enough.

KennDodd

I don’t hold all white people responsible. I don’t want an apology. I created this post to highlight the double standards and an acknowledgement that when muslim terrorist does something in the name of religion, the 1.2 billion muslims are held to account. Yet, when a white terrorist does something in the name of the white race, the white race uses a different set of standards to what it judged the muslims with.

The threat of white supremacists is very real. Media and politicians have been so busy legitimising islamophobia that it gave more and more power to these terrorist groups as the average ignorant person now buys into at least some of the views of white supremacy.

I really appreciate your support and your stand against racism. It means a lot.

The Moslems are a disparate community who all hate each other with nothing in common at all. Okay now?

What the fuck is the matter with you?

GardenVariety, not exactly. I think a lot of intolerance is motivated by ignorance and deliberate misinformation.

I see a lot of Islamic fundamentalist stuff on social media (not in English) and most of it is based on lies and distortions, e.g. something like 'this Christian sect is copying Islam and is growing very quickly' and then there'll be a series of photos, which will be completely misleading (e.g. a liberal female imam (which is considered heretical generally but that's by the by) leading Muslim worship in a church in the US, but the caption says it is a Christian sect deliberately apeing Islam in order to convert people). I think Britain First et al work in similar distortions.

Other times the content might be something about going to hell if you choose a non-Muslim leader, or whatever.

I think for the people that digest a diet of such content then it's going to create intolerance.

How does that relate to white supremacists? Well in several ways, I know some fascist rapist murderous politicians who choose to pursue a political Islam. I don't think the specific ideology is important to them, only the pursuit of power. There's obviously little difference between them and Donald Trump, who doesn't seem to be a very good Christian, but has chosen to embrace political Christianity, and has got lots of support from Christian leaders for doing so. I'm sure Islam spread because of Muhammad's military activities, and Christianity because of the Roman Empire.

So Imran Khan and Donald Trump are two sides of the same coin, and indeed there's not such a gap between Isis and its caliphate and whites talking about preserving a Christian Europe.

One is explicitly a reaction to the other. I'm not sure how important faith is to the process, in that you can identify with a concept of Christiandom which lacks any sort of religious element, but in terms of a set of values. These values could be ostensibly liberal - e.g. the Greet Wilders/Holland model where you try to contrast tolerance for LGBT with people throwing gays off buildings or whatever - but they are more than anything else about 'them and us', painting the 'other' as savage. That works in both directions of course: if you are from a conservative religious society, you can paint the West (or Christians, or whatever) as sexual degenerates doomed to burn in hell.

So I think that white supremacy is not different from other kinds of intolerance, in that it's driven by ignorance, misinformation, and power-hungry politicians.

I can't understand why you are absolutely determined to carry on making generalisations about people. You really do come across very badly on this thread.

There is ethno-nationalism all over the world. Look at the staggeringly racist images in China which are deemed acceptable in public life there. While there is a white supremacy issue it’s also the case that the concept of non-racism exists in the West too, but not universally.

OP I am sorry I simply don't agree with your point. You are mixing up race and religion. They are two different things, you can't blame white people for an act done by a white person anymore than you can blame all non whites for an act by POC. When something is done in the name of an ideology that is different. If something was done in the name of Christianity I would expect the church to speak up - not all white people but I would expect the leaders and community to condemn an attack done in the name of their ideology. If a terrorist attack is conducted in the name of Islam I expect the same of Muslims not all Hindus, Sikhs etc