To think that things were different before 2007?

[Haarrieett]

Just happened to see that the new Madeleine McCann documentary is trending on twitter - I clicked on it and saw that hundreds of people were saying things along the lines of "Who would leave their children alone in a foreign country?"

I was slightly at this because dh and I honestly used to do this all the time. My dc are a few years older than Madeleine - when we went on holiday to resorts in places like Greece and Spain, we would often leave them alone in a hotel room (often with a window/patio door open for fresh air) while we went out for dinner.

Obviously, after Madeleine went missing we never did it again, but I do recall it being pretty common behaviour at least among our friends.

Did anyone else used to do this in the pre-MM era?

I really don't think this was ever normal?!
My brother was born in 84 and I was 87 we were never left like this.

No. And IMO the people who say “It was common” are the types of people who A, would, and B, hung out with like-minded people.

I also think that certain places lend themselves to this kind of person, I.e. the same types who work all day so their children are in full-time nursery which is fair enough, but who are then so used to spending time without children that they also go on holidays where the kids spend all day in holiday club and then get left alone all night as well. The types who beg the question as to why they actually bothered having kids at all...

PS: this is nothing to do with working parents, more to do with parents who don’t actually spend any time with kids, who look for the kinds of holidays where they can spend as little time as possible without them, and the likes of Mark warner holidays lend themselves to those kinds of parents. LLl

Nope, never left them.
We aren't package holiday type folk anyway but if we went night fishing or meeting friends for a beach BBQ then the kids came too.

We only went on holiday a couple of times, but I remember my great aunt bristling that my Nana wouldn’t use the listening service. I was the youngest and she was forever saying “that child should be in bed”.

It was common in their circle, but my Nana holidayed at Sunmerland and lived in fear of fire so never left me.

I’m late 30s, middle class and this was a normal thing to do in the 80s and 90s on holiday. Just like letting kids sit in the boot of an estate car when driving, play out for 6 hours day without going home etc. And my dad was a policeman! So yes, things were different.

Did anyone else used to do this in the pre-MM era?

No. And my two eldest are nearly 16 (a month after MM) and 13 (DC3 wasn't born at the time of MM's disappearance). I'm also 49 and my folks never did this despite its being the 70s. They did a lot of boozy holidaying with other families but it was always the type of thing where everyone piled into one villa and the kids all fell asleep in the bedrooms and then were carried back to requisite villas with the parents when they went to bed. Or, a couple of grannies would come along and play babysitter.

We were born in 1970’s our parents wouldn’t go to the local pub 7 doors down without hiring a babysitter for us kids.

DC born 2003, no. I have never left them in a room alone whilst we went out to eat and socialise and certainly not when .....
there weren’t any restaurants within a 10 minute walk,

So take kids with you, eat early, have drinks in your room if you must or go to bed early. You don’t, under any circumstances, leave young children alone in a room to hurt themselves, choke, get caught in a fire -or all the other imagined dangers that come well before having someone break in and snatch them.
My heart breaks for them it really does. I don’t know how they go on. But -they put socialising with their friends above their children and that is not something that most people I know, or grew up with, would ever have done.
So no, things were NOT different before 2007 for a LOT of people.

It used to be quite common in the UK. When I was young places like Butlins used to have someone walking around the cabins and if a child was crying the cabin number would go up on the screen in the main hall so the parents could go back and see to them.

When we were camping or caravaning my parents would leave us in the tent or caravan to go to the resort bar when we were 8ish. Don't think we went on holiday when we were pre-school, though.

@Bananasarenottheonlyfruit Absolutely. That was the Mark Warner USP. I know loads of people who only went on their hols for that reason.

Really we are such a risk averse culture.

I stayed in tents in friends' gardens as a child. We were left in the car with a coke & crisps as a child. Remember when kids were not allowed in pubs?

I am not that old just hit 50 but am in denial

put it another way: would people leave their jewellery or handbags with phone, cash and everything at a hotel reception? I don't mean the safe.
Of course not.

Whilst I appreciate it's much easier, and safer, to steal jewellery and cash than a toddler, it's not worth the risk. You'd be so worried you wouldn't enjoy yourself anyway.

I feel sorry for the parents who have no choice, and have to work nights leaving young kids alone - or starve, but holiday makers? Give me a break.

WHen we go on holiday the kids are up late every night as they come out with us. However, when I was little my parents often put us to bed and then went out. It was also pretty normal to leave the buggy outside the shop while you popped in.

I can’t honestly say what I would have done if it hadn’t been for Madeleine McCann - maybe I would have been far too relaxed about it all as well but this case is always in the back of my mind and I would rather have to go back a little early than risk leaving the kids alone.

We were never left. We would stay up late (maybe fall asleep at the table watching entertainment) and wake up late...

I suppose it would be slightly understandable if it were a standalone hotel or a room right next to the restaurant but leaving toddlers in a room at the edge of a resort right on a road...very dodgy...

Actually, I think it's extremely weird to be willing to leave toddlers unaccompanied in a hotel room with the door to the patio open while their parents eat in a restaurant a 10 minute walk away - unless using a hotel babysitting service. Surely you didn't do that, OP?!

I’m 41. I know my parents left me in a hotel room to sleep while they had dinner. I was found wandering hotel corridors in Spain naked once, I think I was 3!
They used to leave a tape of an audiobook playing and nip up between courses to turn the tape over.
I would never do this with DS, he stays up later until maybe 9pm on holiday then we all go to bed together. Or we leave him with my parents

"put it another way: would people leave their jewellery or handbags with phone, cash and everything at a hotel reception?"

Probably not. But I leave my car (which is worth far more than all my jewellery, handbags, phones and cash put together) out on the street every night.

Sorry OP but that's really irresponsible as a parent

Nope, not remotely normal or pk. My dc were born 1990s and were never left under those circumstances. We did self catering holidays, and I remember a few grim nights in stop over hotels reading in the hotel bathroom whilst they slept, taking turns with DH to be in the hotel lounge.
I’m not a super helicopter parent either. Often would leave them in the car at a petrol station and worked 3/4 long days a week the whole time they were pre school.
But leaving your kids like that is neglect, and if the Mc Canns had been asda workers rather than medics they would have been thrown to the wolves.

We were left in the car with a coke & crisps as a child.

I honestly do not know one single person who has ever done that.

The poster above mentioning cultural habits is certainly right. I am more from a "keep the kids with us and let them play outside IN FULL VIEW" background (and we all sleep late in the morning).

My grand-mother even used to wake up the kids when she was driving overnight and stopped for a loo break, she wouldn't even have left them in a locked car if she couldn't see them from the restroom.

I watched the first episode today and all i can think is. Why o why if you were doing a tag team babysitting service, couldn't you actually stay with the kids for lets say half an hour then tag in the next watcher. So one of the party stays away for half an hour. No biggie. But your kids would be safe, watched over and if anything suspicious was occurring then the alarm would be raised a whole lot faster than when it was. Hindsight is wonderful. But a child is still missing. Coulda shoulda woulda. MM's parents will go to their graves kicking their own asses. Nothing is acheived.

I was never left and I've only left my dc once older dc were about 6 and 7 and youngest was a toddler. We were staying in a b&b. We went to the bar for a couple of drinks. We had a baby monitor and by sticking our head out the door of the bar we could see our room. We could also freely see the front door.

I wouldn't leave them if I couldn't see the room they were in.

But I leave my car (which is worth far more than all my jewellery, handbags, phones and cash put together) out on the street every night.

You have an expensive car

So we were very delinquent parents.... They are all adults, and mostly quite normal now. TBF, it wasn't an environment that abducters would have targeted. A mouse couldn't have run across the road without comment.

All the people saying that they were left alone and turned out fine, you know that doesn’t make it right, right?
OP leaving children alone before or after 2007 is still quite normal for crappy parents I’m sure. You and they can risk it if you like, just like MMs parents did. That’s no for me though. I’m sure lots of people on here will justify it and make you feel better about what you did but it’s crap and deep down, you know it’s wrong or you wouldn’t put a post on here hoping for vindication.

Taking the kids out and letting them stay up late is part of being on holiday, isn’t it?

Not when they're toddlers, surely?

That’s exactly what we did when ours were toddlers - when the dc finally conked out we’d put them in a reclined stroller. No way would we ever have left small dc unattended on holiday - and that’s going back much further than 2007.

I agree that if MM’s parents hadn’t been middle class and in their own words ‘dining’, they would have been facing neglect charges.

It’s not about being stolen though, that’s not a common occurrence.

It’s about how safe is a toddler if it wakes up in a strange place especially and you’re not there... if they decide to try and run a bath, if they decide they’re hungry and go to make themselves something to eat... if they go outside looking for you...