To think that things were different before 2007?

[Haarrieett]

Just happened to see that the new Madeleine McCann documentary is trending on twitter - I clicked on it and saw that hundreds of people were saying things along the lines of "Who would leave their children alone in a foreign country?"

I was slightly at this because dh and I honestly used to do this all the time. My dc are a few years older than Madeleine - when we went on holiday to resorts in places like Greece and Spain, we would often leave them alone in a hotel room (often with a window/patio door open for fresh air) while we went out for dinner.

Obviously, after Madeleine went missing we never did it again, but I do recall it being pretty common behaviour at least among our friends.

Did anyone else used to do this in the pre-MM era?

No. I've never ever left my children unattended in a room with an unlocked door in a place where I couldn't see them.

Back in 07 they were roundly criticised by most people I spoke to for leaving the kids as they did

The year before I was criticised for being an over protective parent because I didn’t leave Dd and ds in a hotel room on their own.

I felt bullied by a group of middle class parents.

I felt bullied by a group of middle class parents.

That's an interesting point. I've often thought that peer pressure amongst the tapas seven was probably strong.

The other thing I can't get my head around is this, the theory is that someone (the kidnapper or whoever) had been watching the McCanns go in and out, knew children were alone etc and knew roughly how often they were checking on them. But still chose to use the window, instead of the unlocked patio door?!

FWIW I never did leave them and if my kids Ds disturbed their drinking time then they could moan all they like.
I don’t think we went away again for 6 years.

If I remember the case clearly wasn’t there another girl that was being targeted but her parents never took their eyes off her or left her alone. From my memory I think they noticed they were being followed and an interest was being taken in their Dd.

I bet the friend who went to check before Kate mccann will forever feel guilty for not actually checking them and just listening.
So many what ifs that poor poor girl

It’s completely unthinkable to me, but I didn’t have my first dc till 2014.

I remember talking about MM with my mum and her saying that she never would have done anything similar with us. We went on similar style holidays but we ate together and mum & dad drank gin and tonics on the balcony and played scrabble while we slept. I remember that, from being a slightly older child. I never remember being left alone.

But I know a couple who had their baby after MM’s so appearance and they, (a GP and a police officer), that I know of, once left their one year old alone in they house, but gave the baby monitor to a neighbour, and went out for a curry, about a 25 minute walk away. They left her again when she was about two in a house opposite a sports club, while they attended a party there. This just have been in about 2011.

I think some people just do this sort of thing and others don’t. It’s not just MM, though I’m sure it did have an impact.

disappearance*

*must
*their

Stupid phone, sorry.

We left 13mo DD asleep in our locked chalet, which was in view of our table in the hotel restaurant, while we had dinner on our honeymoon 5 years ago. I'm crap at judging distances but it was a 1-min walk away. We went and checked on her every 20 mins. I think for something to happen would be** spectacularly unlucky.

Hope not on a million years and we are well travelled. 18 months and 3 years old? Not a chance. They could wake screaming and walk out it's just too stupid. Sorry but nothing has changed.

No, people were shocked at the time. My parents would’ve dreamed of doing it even in 1970s.

wouldn’t’ve

Child of the 70’s here and we were not left. On holiday or elsewhere. Neither was dh who is older. People might say it was commonplace but even if it was, it doesn’t make it acceptable. Everyone I spoke to was shocked that this was a thing. I genuinely feel that leaving such young children alone is neglect, and I can’t understand why any parent would do this in any circumstances.

That said, while I don’t understand their actions, I do empathise with the McCann’s. They behaved badly but have suffered the worst consequences and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Several pp’s have admitted to making the same mistake with no negative outcome. They do not deserve the vilification they have received. They have lost the most precious thing and I can’t imagine what they have to live with every day.

Never ever done this. At the time of the disappearance I do remember this was all we talked about. No one I know would dream of doing this, we all followed the tried and tested routine of early tea with children and an evening spent on the balcony with kids in bed or they fall asleep in buggy while you have dinner and hope they don't wake up. I never expected to have leisurely dinner and drinks and pleasant down time with other adults every night on holiday. If I did, I would have left my children at home. I think this turned a lot of people against the couple plus their failure to understand that most people do not do this.

I remember being in holiday resorts with kids up til all hours and also rows of buggies outside a bar - all with sleeping children in (mine included). I also remember tutting from older people that children should be in bed not out with us. It never once occurred to us to leave our babies asleep in bed and go out. I had never heard of this before MM.

I have watched the documentary and I find it baffling. How would you pass a sleeping 4 year old out through a window? If the parents are involved then why the huge media campaign? I find it hard to look at Kate as the pain in her face is heartbreaking but I do see some guilt there too. Gerry is a different matter.

We were never left, always with our parents, as for toddlers always thought that they were with parents and would see them asleep in their pushchairs when they got tired.

Im a 1980s kid and my parents never left us. Either they stayed in or we went with. I cant imagine leaving my kid alone like that .

An earlier poster mentioned the old days when babies in prams were left outside shops.
This was then because the shops were smaller (think local newsagent), and prams were large, and would not fit in the shops. However, there were cases of new babies being stolen from prams, so parents stopped doing this.
Then there have been cases of new babies being stolen from hospitals, so security at hospitals have been tightened.
I am not sure about hotels, where the parents stay on the premises. When my children were young, the system was to use the receptionist, as an earlier poster said, but this is not something I ever did. We could not afford a hotel anyway.
However, I am unfamiliar with how modern baby monitors work, so I
cannot judge if this would be something to do, if the parent remained within the range.
In the case of MM, the holiday was clearly a holiday for the adults, not the children, as they used a minding/ club or similar for the children during the day.

I actually cannot comprehend this in my mind that educated, "responsible" adults would do this! I'm disgusted at the idea of listening services also. I think when people address the probability of something terrible happening I'm just gobsmacked that's a risk that some people spend time calculating! No, just no. And also let's take the threat down a peg or 100. Forget fire and abduction. I can't imagine my toddler waking in a strange cot in a strange house in a strange country and needing me for reassurance and NOT being there! A child with a bad dream? A child with a sudden illness/sickness. I'm utterly baffled how anyone could do this and saunter off for food and drinks. Disgusting.

We went and checked on her every 20 mins. I think for something to happen would be spectacularly unlucky.

I can't imagine my toddler waking in a strange cot in a strange house in a strange country and needing me for reassurance and NOT being there! A child with a bad dream? A child with a sudden illness/sickness. I'm utterly baffled how anyone could do this and saunter off for food and drinks.

That's the thing. The odds of abduction are extremely low. The odds of a fire are fairly low. The odds of at least one of three toddlers in a strange country, experiencing temperatures, food and a day to day lifestyle that they aren't used to and are likely overstimulated by, waking up and being upset is a near certainty. When I don't leave my DS home alone at night it's not because I fear abduction or fire, it's because I don't want him to wake up and be scared and alone. It would be horrendously scary to be a small child and wake up all alone in the dark with nothing and nobody familiar around you to comfort you. And if you leave them alone enough, that will happen.

@Sassenach85 I feel there was a huge sense of arrogance: horrible things won’t happen to nice middle class people who visit nice middle class resorts. Ironically I bet the tapas 7 would have judged other, more working class parents about their own actions and practices prior to what happened to MM.

Absolutely! It sickens me that this probably still happens and if that makes me over protective I don't give a ! Poor kids.

It's all well people talking about decades ago and how the world was different, people had less information etc but no! What about maternal instinct?! Basic care for the children you decided to have.

Not normal within my own family since I was born and I can without any shadow of a doubt say that no-one left me when I was asleep on holiday. It might have been normal in the 70s though.

I know, because I was born in the shadow of a baby cousin who died of SIDS in a hotel room while the parents were dining downstairs in the restaurant. I believe they were relying on the baby listening service provided by the hotel.

My parents used to leave me in the room with the hotel listening service (I once taught one to play poker) for a couple of hours until my nana came to bed.

We've never left DS alone. We used to let him stay up a bit later then go back to the caravan / room and read or listen to music.

@trancepants exactly, which is why it's all the more horrifying that after MM told KateMcC that her and Sean had been crying in the night, they STILL left them alone the following night. Which proved to be the worst decision they have ever made.