To think that things were different before 2007?

[Haarrieett]

Just happened to see that the new Madeleine McCann documentary is trending on twitter - I clicked on it and saw that hundreds of people were saying things along the lines of "Who would leave their children alone in a foreign country?"

I was slightly at this because dh and I honestly used to do this all the time. My dc are a few years older than Madeleine - when we went on holiday to resorts in places like Greece and Spain, we would often leave them alone in a hotel room (often with a window/patio door open for fresh air) while we went out for dinner.

Obviously, after Madeleine went missing we never did it again, but I do recall it being pretty common behaviour at least among our friends.

Did anyone else used to do this in the pre-MM era?

Nope. The parents should have been done for neglect. Just like a working class family that left their kids to go partying would be. The twins were only babies.

Someone asked how listening service worked. Listening service in U.K. hotels it involved phoning reception from your room, informing reception that you were about to come down to dinner and leaving phone off the hook on the side- you then told reception as you passed that you were going to the dining room. Receptionist had all the 'listening Phones' on loudspeaker. Some hotels also has staff patrolling the corridors. You were not supposed to leave the building. Some also had a phone in the dining room so you could dial in to the room on a second line.

I’m 36 and my parents took us on holiday to Greece every summer. They took us out for dinner late every night. I have such happy memories of being tiny and watching the sun set over the sea, the fun and excitement of being in nice restaurants and choosing interesting food, walking back to the rooms in the dark - they would never, ever have left us alone. I took my kids to Greece last year and they came to dinner with us and were up til 10pm every night. Why not when you’re on holiday?

I know parenting has changed and it is a more anxious age but love and attachment hasn’t - I can’t comprehend feeling relaxed and enjoying dinner whilst my toddlers were unsupervised in a hotel room ten minutes away with an open patio door. Even without disaster happening, they could have bad dreams or vomit or wake up and be scared - I just don’t know why anyone would do it. OP, I’m sorry but I find your admission really odd and I don’t think that the fact it was a different time justifies it. A lot of parents would never have done this. I can’t understand how and why you did.

I think it was normal in some circles in the 1980s - my parents certainly left me in a hotel room by myself while they ate dinner downstairs. They think I’m hugely over protective with my children, not specifically in that issue, but in general. Tunes have changed a lot.

I’m the youngest of 3 at 36 and my parents never left us. I have also never left mine and my youngest is the same age as Madeleine.

Nope, not normal in my family or my 'circle'. Never has been, never will be. IMO, there's a very small subset of parents who did (and possibly still do) it, and a PP was right when they said its generally the same parents who put their toddlers in a kids club all day while on holiday.
I mean, why go on holiday as a family at all? Why not leave the kids at home with Grandparents if you want a relaxing break?

As a side note, when Kate McCann admitted that MM had said to her 'why didn't you come when me and Sean were crying?' I lost all respect for them. If your 3 year old had just told you that her and her brother were crying for you in the night, what parent in their right mind would leave them again?

Our parents used to leave us in the car whilst they did the weekly shop, also as babies left outside shops in prams. So yes times have changed

My mum used to leave us in the pram outside a shop regularly This was the 70’s

We weren’t left in hotel rooms but then we never had that sort of a holiday then.

I never did it with mine. Born 2005.

There is a big difference from going downstairs in a hotels to have a drink or dinner with a listening service- which was a perfectly usual thing to do- and going out of the building without. Which wasn’t.

We were raising our children in the 90s, and yes we did leave them in hotel rooms from time to time, with the baby monitor on and popping back to check. Obviously stayed within the monitor range of about 100 metres.
We also booked complete strangers to babysit, occasionally.
I felt they were safer with a monitor than a stranger.

They were never going to be done for neglect. Professional, wealthy, well-connected, Freemason parents. Not a chance. Gordon Brown (also a Freemason) had some input too.

The sad thing is that children left outside shops in prawns outside shops would be just as safe now as they were then. It’s perceptions that have changed, not the level of risk.

Prams. Prawns do not make reliable baby sitters.

Bertrand AFAIK no listening service, but they did stick to the hotel’s own restaurant. But several floors away and with me locked in the room. They would come up and listen for noise at the door between courses, I think.

I went on holiday a lot with my parents in the nineties and noughties, they never once left us alone in the hotel room. We all ate dinner together and would stay out a lot later than normal, sometimes DB and I had to be carried back to the hotel asleep. But no, never left alone.

I can’t understand leaving children this young, I never have understood it and never will. I really, really can’t understand leaving the door open either. It’s negligence.

I grew up in the 80's with fairly shit parents but they never ever once left me or my siblings alone in a hotel room, I don't know anyone who does/did and TBH I'd judge someone massively for this both them and now

Also we've been holidaying abroad since mine were just a few months old and they've spent the whole holiday going to bed at midnight. No way am I turning in at 8pm for the sake of not breaking a routine

You have to wonder why the parents didn’t use the babysitting service provided by the hotel. They could afford it.
Also I find it odd that Madeleine was out in a children’s club all day and then left at night. Not really a family holiday.
My parents used to leave me in a car whilst they went shopping. They also left me to sleep on the car when visiting friends in the eve. Also locked is in the hotel room whilst they went to dinner in the hotel. That was in the olden days and just wouldn’t happen now.

We let the kids go to kids club and I sunbathe outside the door at least til I've got the measure of the staff and the routines

Ha ha I do this too. If I had my way DD wouldn't go to kids club but shes an only and she gets so bored with just me and DH that I usually let her have a couple of morning or afternoons there.

I've never done it and never would. I see why people do and don't judge harshly but I absolutely would not. My own parents though, would go out to the early hours almost every weekend and leave a seven year old responsible for a two year old and thought nothing of it but they were generally neglectful anyway.

I was born in 73. We used to go on holiday to Austria in the 80’s and parents would leave us in hotel room and go for dinner in the hotel ( kids tea was earlier).

Does the MM story act as a ‘stranger danger’ warning and a rebuke to parents who leave their kid alone? Well I’d say that largely depends on what you assume happened to MM.

My mother used to work at Butlins in the late 60s and they had something called the "Crying Baby Board" in the cabaret and restaurant areas. Basically, the Redcoats who were patrolling the chalets would radio the Redcoats who were at the entertainments to tell them if there was a baby crying in chalet number X. The ones at the entertainments would write "Baby crying in chalet number X" on the board, and the parents would be expected to see it and go back to their chalet to see to the baby. So clearly it was completely expected that parents would leave very young children on their own in their accommodation while they went out, and nobody thought anything of it. Not commenting on the rights or wrongs, btw, just thought it was an interesting contrast with what people would do now.

Back in 07 they were roundly criticised by most people I spoke to for leaving the kids as they did. Not because of fears of abduction. But because they were essentially still babies and could have woken and been frightened, gotten sick or hurt themselves and they could be alone for up to half an hour before the next check by their parents. If they had been a few years older and old enough to understand what was going on it would have been different but leaving a nearly 4yo and a pair of 2yos means that upset and distress is practically guaranteed.

I'm not a helicopter parent. I want my child to experience independence as he is ready for it. Since he was 3 I've been going out of my way a lot to allow him more and more freedom and independent play as he's grown. I think the risk of abduction is honestly negligible. But I'd never leave him asleep and out of earshot. There are cafes and restaurants as close to my house as the tapas restaurant is to their apartment but I don't put him to bed at night and head out for a meal. I wouldn't even nip out for milk. When he's a bit older I'll start to leave him when he's awake and able to decide for himself if he's comfortable to stay home alone for short periods. But I won't be leaving him alone at night until he's a teen.

Does the MM story act as a ‘stranger danger’ warning and a rebuke to parents who leave their kid alone?

There's a long list of reasons not to leave young children home alone, and "stranger danger" is way down at the bottom.