To think that things were different before 2007?

[Haarrieett]

Just happened to see that the new Madeleine McCann documentary is trending on twitter - I clicked on it and saw that hundreds of people were saying things along the lines of "Who would leave their children alone in a foreign country?"

I was slightly at this because dh and I honestly used to do this all the time. My dc are a few years older than Madeleine - when we went on holiday to resorts in places like Greece and Spain, we would often leave them alone in a hotel room (often with a window/patio door open for fresh air) while we went out for dinner.

Obviously, after Madeleine went missing we never did it again, but I do recall it being pretty common behaviour at least among our friends.

Did anyone else used to do this in the pre-MM era?

My eldest was born early 2000s and I was pregnant with my youngest when this happened. I never left my eldest alone before it hsppened, no one I knew did either. It was completely irresponsible.

I wouldn’t bash somebody’s parenting choice, but I’ve never liked it (on MN) when what I think are ordinary precautions about children’s safety are mocked and laughed at. ‘You are one of those --thick working class— people who think there’s a paedo round every corner! Well we live in a sleepy little village / holiday in sleepy resorts - none of that round here.’

Quite apart from the fact that this screams a class based bias it’s also bollocks. Sleepy villages have people going through them. I can also think of at least four high profile child murders in sleepy villages.

I have been incredulous at some parenting decisions in the past that directly led to tragedy. Leaving riddlers alone is something I’ve never heard of. But with that being said, I do have heartfelt sympathy for them.

No, I don't think it was normal to leave children alone while the parents went out.

I am 32 and my brother 37 - we were never left alone in the caravan/hotel rooms while our parents went out! Either we all went out early in the eve and then my parents relaxed in the caravan/room when we got back or we stayed up late and went out for the evening with them. I genuinely don't know anybody who did/does this.

My son is 5 now but I would still never leave him alone.

I feel terribly sorry for little Madeleine and I do hope the case is solved eventually but the parents were at fault to leave their children alone, as were their friends who also left children alone.

I do think it was very common to have dinner downstairs in an hotel leaving the children in the room with a listening service. I had my first child in 1995, and lots of people did that. I certainly would have done if dd had been a reliable sleeper. I don’t think I knew of anybody actually leaving the building, though.

From what I’ve read, the Mark Warner resorts did have a babysitting service

Yes they did and on the night of Madeleines disappearance they had chosen not to use it.

Absolutely couldn’t do it and I judge the McCanns for not using their fucking brains and thinking about wine and food over their kids.
Me and my mum were just discussing this last night and she said she never left me, she’d send me to kids club in the day then couldn’t relax anyway

I certainly used Mark Warner babysitting n the late 1990s.

Not normal at all, my parents would never have done this and neither would any of my friends.

It's a fucking stupid idea. Remove the threat of abduction and you still have small children alone in a strange apartment. They could drown themselves, start a fire, have a nightmare and have no-one to comfort them etc etc These people are fucking doctors, they should know about and had training about child safeguarding.

If this had been a working class family in Magaluf there would have been a very different reaction to the parents.

I don't give a shit if some people think this is reasonable behaviour, it's not.

I was born in 1967 and it was normal to leave your baby outside alone in the pram whilst you went into a shop.
We had a Labrador who kept guard of me 😆

We did go on lots of foreign holidays (aspirational working class with money) but always went to the earliest sitting for dinner and ate together.

A couple of months before Madeleine McCann we were invited to a party and would have had to stay in hotel. Children weren’t invited and we had nobody who could have our daughter who was very young. We were told to leave her in the hotel room while we were at the party. We were absolutely horrified at the suggestion and didn’t go.
I do know other people used to do this quite often tho. I could never understand it to be honest.

I remember being at holiday camps as a child and them along out chalet numbers with crying children. Even then my parents would never have done this due to risk of getting into the open plan kitchen, bathroom, drowning or starting a fire. we stayed with them the same as my children stay with us in the evening entertainment.

"Listening services" were definitely commonplace so people must have used them which suggests people did often leave their kids.

I'm unclear as to how a listening service works though, this thread mentions variously someone walking the corridor and listening at the door, phoning the room and a baby monitor at reception.

There was an evening crèche service and they chose not to use it as it wasn’t convenient... that says it all really. They had the option to leave their children alone in an unlocked room in unfamiliar surroundings or with a carer and chose to leave them alone

No. We went as a family to Butlins and Pontins a few times in the 60's and my parents never left us alone.

Me and DH have no children but we have always had a dog and often take them on holiday here and abroad and stay in apartments and cottages. We have NEVER left our dog alone. I really do not understand how anyone could leave a child

I remember my friend going to a Mark Warner resort somewhere exotic in the early 2000s and a hotel person would cycle through the restaurants holding a flag with the room numbers of where children were crying.

I want to preface this by saying I never left my DC (born 1998 & 2000) when they were little - I once used a hotel babysitting service for my first born when he was a year old and in a cot so couldn't get out, I was at a work's Xmas party in the hotel and we stayed over. But I kept checking on him as I worried the listening service weren't listening properly. I also worried about fire and not being able to get to him.

In my 20s I went away with my boss and his wife and their three children aged 5, 7 and 9. They had a yacht and we cruised around the coast of France. I was there to help with the kids and provide a babysitting service so my boss and his wife could go out.

On my last night we were moured in a harbour somewhere in France. After the children went to sleep my boss locked them in their cabins so the 3 of us could go for cocktails and dinner in the local town - this was about 1993.

I remember being really shocked and worried about fire, drowning and abduction but I was young, wasn't a mother myself and was assured it was perfectly normal (it's not of course). We were out until late - kids were fine but I could never have done it myself.

I'm also an eighties child. Both my parents worked FT when we were little. Mum used to plop 3-year-old me and my 2-year-old sister on a bus and go to work, trusting fully that her mother would be waiting at the end of a 20m ride to pick us up and look after us for the day. In fairness, we lived rurally and both drivers on that route were known to my parents and grandparents.

They'd also put us to bed, pop down to the pub and take turns coming to check on us every 30m or so.

We were fine. Having said that, the thought of doing this nowadays horrifies me. I wouldn't entertain the notion if I had two small children.

Also, these kids clubs, what happens here? Is the idea you drop you kids off there in the morning, like nursery then don't see them till late afternoon? Not much of a family holiday then?

BrieAndChilli I totally agree. I was also taken into care after being left alone at 1/2yrs. I think it's easy for some people to justify when something so serious hasn't sculpted their whole lives. I would never make the same mistake as my parents.

Anybody that leaves their children unattended for whatever reasons are playing with fire and incredibly lucky that their actions haven't been found out because the ultimate consequence of doing this is having your children removed from your care, potentially never seeing them again, and that's only if leaving them doesn't have its own consequence like the MM case.

The McCann's have gotten away with this because it happened abroad and they are a middle class couple with a good jobs and reputations with money behind them. If this was me, going on holiday to Pontins taking time off my part time job working at a supermarket, and a break from my housing association house, holiday funded by the small top up of benefit money I receive? The police and SS would be all over me! I wouldn't of just lost my kidnapped child forever I'd of lost my other children too. The only publicity our case would get would be 'child missing after being left by benefit mum', I wouldn't still have a constant stream of money to search for my child I would be deemed unfit to care for my children.

Not normal but but unheard of either. My parents never left us and I'm in my 50's now, we would go out with them and they'd come home s not earlier than those without kids, a nice compromise. I have never left my dc either and the eldest is s couple of years older than MM. However, anecdotally I know of others who were left and came to no harm.

@TakenForSlanted
I'm sorry and I feel bad for slating your parents but that is absolutely disgusting and sounds like a major safeguarding concern.

No, my parents never left us like that. I can remember hotels that offered a listening service and them using that. Bit like a baby monitor really. I think someone would have gone and found them in the bar/restaurant if we were crying or something. That would have been during late 1960s and the 70s. We would never have been left alone just to get on with it, asleep or not.

DD is the same age as Madeline McCann and I remember all of our group being horrified at the DC being left. We changed our way of socialising and DC came along. Toddlers slept in buddies and older ones played together. They were carried home when they crashed out.

Depends on the distance. If you are the same distance as if you were downstairs having a meal at home with the child upstairs I don't see it as a problem but am certainly less likely to do it on holiday as are most people since the MM disappearance. We had similar holidays and you could pay to have a babysitter in your room or there was someone who if you told them you were at dinner would go round to each villa or room to check the children whilst you ate but not be in the place all the time or you could keep going back yourselves every 15 minutes or so which I think we did at one point to check the children had not woken up whilst we ate.

As mentioned above hotels often had baby listening services which is similar to baby monitor in a sense.

Child snatching is very very rare. Lost of TV series have it as a theme as for thousands of years it wil have been most parents' worst nightmare. Whether you have your baby strapped to you morning and night and sleep with it or put it in a nursery or go into the garden to pick some roses whilst it's asleep etc is up to the parents to decide. In some cultures it is regarded as almost child neglect not to sleep in the same bed as the child even.

Nope, absolutely not. It's never been normal in my world. In fact I can remember when MM first disappeared a conversation between my DM and her friend where they both expressed astonishment that the children had been left alone.

I was born in the 80's, grew up in the 90's. The hotels and apartments we stayed in were always very geared around families. It was one of the 'perks' of being on holiday that we'd be allowed to stay up late into the evening with the adults. A couple of times we went abroad with my extended family and my younger cousins would be in pushchairs at the table with us asleep. This was pretty much the norm for other families as well. Some people would chose to go up to bed earlier with the kids, put them to bed and sit out on the balcony with a drink.

But leaving the kids alone has never been acceptable. Ive also always found it really odd that Madeline was shoved in a kids club/crèche at three years old. To me the clubs are for older kids who get bored easily. Not toddlers who are perfectly happy to play in the pool/play on the beach. But who am I to judge....