To think that things were different before 2007?

[Haarrieett]

Just happened to see that the new Madeleine McCann documentary is trending on twitter - I clicked on it and saw that hundreds of people were saying things along the lines of "Who would leave their children alone in a foreign country?"

I was slightly at this because dh and I honestly used to do this all the time. My dc are a few years older than Madeleine - when we went on holiday to resorts in places like Greece and Spain, we would often leave them alone in a hotel room (often with a window/patio door open for fresh air) while we went out for dinner.

Obviously, after Madeleine went missing we never did it again, but I do recall it being pretty common behaviour at least among our friends.

Did anyone else used to do this in the pre-MM era?

nope, never did it, never would. Too long, too far away, too many natural hazards. leaving child in car strapped into car seat while paying for petrol - not an issue for me. I can remember being left in the car with a book, packet of crisps and a bottle of pop while my parents were in the pub - would never, ever ever have crossed my mind to do that, whatever age the kids were.

No pram or some pushed together chairs, this is my poor boy at 2am when parents decide to be piss heads on holiday. To be fair he usually outlasts me.

I sometimes try to be objective because I have heard it ‘used to be the done thing’ but I genuinely can’t imagine doing it, I couldn’t relax or enjoy myself.

Yes, YABU.
My dc were born at the end of the 90s. I wouldn't have done that in a million years. Totally irresponsible - I'd say it was neglect.
I'm in my 50s. There is no way my parents would have done that either. I am still staggered that anyone would think it was acceptable, in any decade.

Joeblogs another poster said her mate said you couldn’t see the apartment from the restaurant, I said that when I stood in front of the restaurant I could see the apartment. I have no idea why the posters mate couldn’t see the apartment? But I could - so that was my point. Now you said you could see the church from your house and I asked is it the same distance?

My parents often left us alone in this situation. I remember various potentially frightening situations, eg the multiple times they left us (all aged under 10) in the car in a baking hot car park in France, and we decided to climb out of the sun roof and wander off. Or the time they left us waiting by a cliff, and my brother decided to climb down past the 'danger, no entry' sign and climb down about 20 metres to get something he fancied, before climbing back up. Or the times they left us on the beach, dipping in and out of the rip tide, to go back to the car for an hour or so.

I would never do what my parents did, and I don't think I would have done what those parents did.

I think a bit of freedom is good for children. My DD is not quite 2 and I will leave her to do her own thing in the house while I'm in the garden for a half hour (door open so I can hear crashes/screams). I'll let her run out of my sight in a supermarket, so long as I can hear her or I'm very close behind. I do think sometimes we are made to feel these are bad things. But there have always been scare stories. When it wasn't McCann it was another small child.

Honestly, what is the purpose of this thread? More finger-wagging and "I would never...". Who cares what you would do?

This family lost their daughter. What else do you need to keep banging on about? Smacks of thigh-rubbing.

@ivykaty . My friend is adamant that you could not see the McCann’s apartment from within the Tapas Bar and you certainly could not hear anything .

No. I have children of a similar age gap, an elder one and younger twins. I don’t know any twin parent who hasn’t been absolutely horrified by what they did. Seriously, when my adult family members look after the twins they can’t believe afterwards how intense and difficult it is. That’s fully functioning healthy adults with their own children. The night before she disappeared she told her parents that her brother had woken up crying and they still went out and left them alone. I can imagine how distressing it would have been for a 3/4?year old to be on her own in a dark apartment with crying twins when it’s a situation many capable adults would struggle to deal with. Of course the first thing she would have done is get up and try to find her parents. My oldest would get in a right flap if both of his brothers started crying while I was next door having a wee because he couldn’t comfort them both. It’s not a fair thing to do to a child. It’s really intense for twin parents at that point but that just underlines to me how much she shouldn’t have been left in that situation rather than excuses it.

And they were out of earshot, out of eyeshot in a completely unlocked apartment some distance from where they were eating that could only be accessed by going out onto a public road, they weren’t checking on them properly and they’d been drinking.

But yeah, twin parents do find it very hard to understand.

Well why can’t they see it is clearly visible? I can, I’ve walked across more than once as we could park the van that side and walk over to the supermarket/ how come I can see the apartment but you say you mate says she can’t?

I'm in my mid 30s and had very laid back parents but they never left us and went out for dinner. When we were on holiday we went out for dinner with them even as toddlers.

i dont care if they could see it they couldnt hear anything could they

My friend is adamant that you could not see the McCann’s apartment from within the Tapas Bar and you certainly could not hear anything

She’s right. The patio doors were the closest bit. The Tapas Bar was on the far side of the pool, there was a fairly big space of loungers, then the pool which was not small, then another space of loungers, then a lawn. Their patio was raised up quite a bit and surrounded by heavy foliage so the apartment couldn’t be seen. They definitely couldn’t hear anything and to get back into the apartment they had to exit a gate out of the complex, walk along a public road and then re-enter the apartment from the road side which was also unlocked and entirely invisible from anywhere around the pool at all.

Gab salut your hearing would have to be that of superman - no one normal could hear what’s happening in an apartment at that distance

It was very much the done thing with the company that they were on holiday with how they escaped the back lash I have no idea. They completely encouraged it- adults only in restaurants after high tea and not enough evening childcare

This can't be real. I was never left even in the early 80s. Kids stay up late on holiday then crash in buggies. It's not a family holiday if you sod off on your own and dump the kids for a few hours.
I remember the uproar when MM went missing that she had been left in a room with her younger siblings.

Definitely not usual. I was shocked at the time - I've got a DS (now 18) and a DD who has just turned 16, so two months' older than Madeline.

Just wouldn't have occurred to us that was a reasonable thing to do - I've watched 2 episodes of the series and even now I'm incredulous.

I remember my parents thinking it was something that it was "ok" and arguing with them at the time.

Have to say no especially as they couldn’t see the property if I have that right . Probably not thinking kidnap but more fire and wandering . I did leave Dc once in a hotel in a travel cot and with baby monitoring and half
Hour checks while we were downstairs having a meal but it didn’t feel right .

My parents apparently left me in similar circs when I was younger - I wouldn’t do this. HOWEVER - the McCanns made a bad decision and they are living in hell for it. I feel sad for them, I feel truly awful for Madeleine.

Also would never have done. If dc was in a bed would have been worried they would wander out. Still these poor parents must revisit their error every single day . I can only imagine not knowing is an absolute torture

No.

I was born in the 70s and my parents never did this. They once went to a dinner party next door and left us in bed at home but it was only the other half of the semi and they took the baby monitor with them (trailing the wire out of one window as and into the nextdoor house).

We were never left alone in a hotel room, we all went to the room together until such a time as my sister and I stayed up later than our parents!

Years ago at Butlins they used to have a thing where you paid £5 per child to be left in the chalet by themselves and a red coat done the rounds to see if they was sleeping etc, if they was distressed they came and told you to come back this was around early 200s maybe stopped in 2005 not sure

@DoomOnTheBroom just see your post now, was still happening mid 200s my parents done it to us

I'm shocked OP!! 5&7 year olds in a hotel room in a foreign country with the a window or patio door open and no childcare service in place keeping an eye on your children???? Speechless.

The MM case is heartbreaking, I have so much heartache for that little girl. She was neglected by her parents (if their story is believed, I have no idea and doubt we will ever know the full truth) i know people say they are paying the price for their actions but are they or have they had a lucky escape at having to take responsibility for their actions?

Speaking as a child that was taken into care because my parents actually did leave me at home regularly to go to the pub down the road when I was 1/2yrs in 1989 I feel that is a good example of consequences in the UK for neglecting a child. They wouldn't of gotten away with their 'justifications' had they of been holidaying here.

She was NOT neglected by her parents. Let's get that out of the way first.
Yes I think most of us assumed things were safer when in a holiday resort. Don't know why but yes that was what most of us thought. MM's abduction was a wake up call for a lot of people.

I went on a Mark Warner holiday in 2002 and lots of people were leaving children in the rooms. The McCann's chose to do their own listening. They didn't do anything any different from many people on a MW holiday in those days.

Some parents used the listening service, with staff going around listening at the door every 20 mins or so.

In those days I was made to feel fussy for not leaving my D.C. alone in the room.