AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

*can have

Also with regards to the risk assessment and consulation for each event the scouts will hold then I imagine the conclusions would be very different for a larger sleepover all in one room with screened off washing/toilet/changing facilities for each sex and the leaders in the room with them than they would be for a traditional 4-5 guides in a tent with the leaders in a separate tent and only one set of toilets/changing area.

7Pip now that is a disablist term.

I've come to expect nothing less from folk like you.

Protecting children from aggressive transitioners is progressive, protecting children from adults who only need to say (with no medical diagnosis or even having seen a doctor) they're female to access female only spaces is not only progressive, it's the right thing to do.

Anyone with a GRC can enter female only spaces. It isn't easy to get one and you have to be diagnosed by a doctor.

The alternative is Pete the rapist deciding he's Petra and gaining access that way. Will I keep fighting against that? You're fucking right and I will.

Well I'm glad that you're spectacularly proud of being spectacularly backward. And I was going to congratulate you for being so honest about your lack of comprehension!!

Oh and your comment about England wasn't personally offensive to me, but it was xenophobic.

So you're 2 for 2 with bigotry, care to keep them coming?

and full of fear and hatred

No fear and hatred in mine

Or in most of the posts ive read

Well I'm glad that you're spectacularly proud of being spectacularly backward

Gosh. Disableist now. So disablelist, xenophobic, and misogynistic.

Don't tell me, you're homophobic too?

Plus has an opinion about something that you've never read.

Extraordinary.

I do understand that there may be circumstances such as those in the OP but are social workers for example really saying a looked after child cannot go on a guides sleep over in case a trans girl is present?

Under 16s is much different to 7-10 yo. My son is in yr 7. While his is aware of older teens being trans, there are none in his year and were none at his (large) primary. Speaking to friends they have a similar experience.

purple

No i doubt they would say no trans girls

But they may say no males

Purplejay

Take a look at this. Take wine.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3531622-4thWaveNow-has-some-incredibly-disturbing-stuff-from-Facebook

social workers for example really saying a looked after child cannot go on a guides sleep over in case a trans girl is present?

A LAC is, by definition, vulnerable. If the risk assessment done by SS requires them to have single sex accommodation on trips, they'd be excluded. There are numerous reasons this could happen according to my friend who is a foster carer (I asked her since I don't know).
Sexual abuse, fear of men because of abuse of any kind within the home, inability to be able to create their own boundaries or even knowing that they can were some of the reasons she gave.

Because GG won't divulge if there are trans girls or trans women as leaders. They won't divulge anything.

Because the only people being considered in any of this, have penises.

I meant in reference to this comment about the age of trans children -While his is aware of older teens being trans, there are none in his year and were none at his (large) primary. Speaking to friends they have a similar experience.

In case I wasn't clear!

Loads of people are free to educate us on how exactly someone changes sex. And what happens in between being 'male' and being 'female'. What is the mechanism that enables this and how do you know when you are there.

Nobody ever does though.

WTAF. That’s a new one on me Datun. I am frankly astounded that parents would go down that route. I mean maybe one or two nutters but hundreds? Thousands? A fair few in the group will likely be voyeristic but even so. That isn’t coming from the kids that’s their parents. Jesus.

I take on board what you say about numbers rising (the stats in some areas are surprising) but I still imagine it is more of an issue with mid teens.

There is a big difference between accepting people as who they are and steering those trying to work that out down a particular path.

There is a big difference between accepting people as who they are and steering those trying to work that out down a particular path

Google mermaids and autistic children.

Be warned, it makes for grim reading. But targeting is the perfect word for what they are doing.

Purplejay

Jazz Jennings' mother is a moderator on the forum, apparently.

There is a big difference between accepting people as who they are and steering those trying to work that out down a particular path.

I'd say that kindergarten children with plastic penises in their pants have got absolutely nothing to do with what the child wants.

You're stirring up hatred.
You can accuse me of all you like.
I come from a country that is inclusive. I would hate to say I was someone who couldn't tolerate a transgender child on a sleepover. Such fear and hysteria.
You're using extreme examples in order to try to make a rational argument. That will never ever work.
How about you actually look at the reality.

How about you actually look at the reality.

How about you actually tell us how safeguarding works, if it's based on sex, except if a male says some magic words?

I take it you do understand safeguarding rules and regulations?

How about a prepubescent child is not a grown male predator.

FFS give the boys guns and let them wear blue. They'll soon figure out who they are.

I find it highly amusing that all of you up in arms about trans, are probably the ones also up in arms about pink and blue!

If you dress a boy in pink/gender neutral, of course he's not going to know what he is. It's gone to the point of ridiculous here on MN. You'll find that outside of MN, these attitudes don't exist. Outside of the UK, they don't exist either!

How about a prepubescent child is not a grown male predator.

No one said that. Ridiculous hyperbole.

Tell us how safeguarding works in your country? Do 9 and 10 year old girls get changed in front of each other? Are the sexes ever segregated? Do you teach the pants rule?

• girls and boys get changed in front of each other...

f you dress a boy in pink/gender neutral, of course he's not going to know what he is

Erm

Never dressed my boys in pink but they are quite bright and of course their penis was a bit of a giveaway for them

Or maybe they are much cleverer than originally thought

Google mermaids and autistic children.

Be warned, it makes for grim reading. But targeting is the perfect word for what they are doing.

It isn't just targeting though, is it GIRES that diagnose transing kids as a cure for autism? I have lost count of who is doing what these days.

If you dress a boy in pink/gender neutral, of course he's not going to know what he is.

Say what now?