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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

999 replies

Only13percentleft · 11/03/2019 15:21

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

OP posts:
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RockyFlintstone · 13/03/2019 12:54

It's just another example of women being expected to sort out men's problems. And then when they do come and sort it out, the women get blamed for taking over and ruining it!

You couldn't make it up!!!

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 13/03/2019 12:54

The girls didnt remove the spaces

The men of the scouts organisation did

Ya know...the male leaders of the male organisation

10IAR · 13/03/2019 12:54

And for the boys who didn't want it? Where did they go when their single sex organisation became mixed?

To single sex accommodation, toilets and changing areas which can be requested.

Why can't you understand that the boys (and girls within scouting) are asked what they feel and the girls within guiding are not?

It's not (or shouldn't be) a difficult concept.

One group is being denied their rights, the other is not.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 13/03/2019 12:54

But yeah

We can keep blaming 6 year old girls if you like (beavers)

titchy · 13/03/2019 12:58

And girls removed the boys choice by joining the traditionally boys organisation leaving boys with no single sex organisation.

Are you seriously blaming girls for that? Do you know anythiing about why Scouts became mixed-sex? Obviously not from your posts. Scout policy makers made the decision, not girls, and they made it because the alternative was that Scouts would close.

RockyFlintstone · 13/03/2019 12:59

And the difference with trans girls joining guides? The organisation has agreed to them joining. Exactly the same as the scouts organisation agreeing for girls to join.

It's not 'exactly the same' at all. When Scouts let girls join, they made it clear that they would be a mixed sex organisation. GG are letting males join whilst still saying that they are for girls only.

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 13:00

To single sex accommodation, toilets and changing areas which can be requested

I'm talking about where do boys go if they want a single sex organisation, you know, like they used to have?.

One group is being denied their rights, the other is not.

You're right. Boys are denied their right to have a single sex group.

Why did girls feel the need to join scouts? No one has answered. If girls want a single sex space so much why go and join a boys group when you have that single sex space right there already?

titchy · 13/03/2019 13:00

And the difference with trans girls joining guides?

Really? So you regard trans-girls as boys then? The difference, as if you didn't know is that GG still state they are a single sex organisation. Scouts is quite open about it's mixed-sex status.

titchy · 13/03/2019 13:01

Boys are denied their right to have a single sex group.

There is nothing to stop them setting one up.

RockyFlintstone · 13/03/2019 13:02

You're right. Boys are denied their right to have a single sex group.

Yes, because not enough boys wanted to do Scouts and Scouts would have had to close if girls hadn't joined, so the boys still would have had nothing.

Take it up with the Scouting leadership, not girls, if you feel so strongly about it (which I suspect you don't really, you are just looking for a way to blame girls for everything).

GerryblewuptheER · 13/03/2019 13:03

So you think this is sone kind of justified "payback"

Bet the parents werent moaning it had become mixed sex if it meant they got to spend a couple fo child free hours together every Wednesday night.

Bet they werent complaining when the female scout leader took their kids away for a weekend so they could go to the theatre and dinner for their anniversary.

Didnt bother the dad enough for him to give his evening up.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 13/03/2019 13:04

Why did girls feel the need to join scouts?

Because they were invited and thought it would be fun

I dont know why you are struggling with this

I can ask my daughter but I'm not sure she will remember...as she was 6

Rainbows in our village was a lot of crafts and was a small space

The scout hut was much bigger and they did less crafts and more running round

I think that's probably what a lot of 6 year olds enjoy

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 13/03/2019 13:05

which I suspect you don't really, you are just looking for a way to blame girls for everything)

Yes

Damn you 6 year olds

10IAR · 13/03/2019 13:05

I'm talking about where do boys go if they want a single sex organisation, you know, like they used to have?

You mean the one that would no longer exist if girls hadn't been admitted?
Or the one which openly declares it is mixed sex, which led to it's survival?
Or the one which facilitates single sex accommodation, changing areas and toilets?

Um, there I'd say.

Nice try with the "but what about the boys".

Standard tactics from a group that if I called them by name would get me banned.

Boys are denied their right to have a single sex group

No, they're not. They admitted girls, openly and with full risk assessment and consultation.

Why haven't GG done the same?

Because they knew it wouldn't fly so they redefined single sex instead. To appease males.

So tell me again how it's males being oppressed?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 13/03/2019 13:06

Dh was a cub leader

He joined after it was mixed sex though

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 13:06

Boys didn't have a say though did they? Any boys who didn't like it had to leave.

And plenty of dads did and do give up their time to run groups.

And again - why did girls join a boys organisation if they want a single sex group? They didn't join as a charitable act did they?

RockyFlintstone · 13/03/2019 13:08

Why did girls feel the need to join scouts? No one has answered.

Obviously I can only speak for myself but in my area at least, Beavers looks more fun to be honest (prepares for flaming!) Plus my DH was quite into Scouting and really wants both of our kids to do it, and he knows some of the leaders etc whereas, although I did GG I'm not that bothered, so it just made more sense for DD to do Beavers.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 13/03/2019 13:08

Im getting really confused weetabix

When who wanted a single sex group

The girls or boys

I have a feeling you mean girls...which makes no sense

Ereshkigal · 13/03/2019 13:09

Take it up with the Scouting leadership, not girls, if you feel so strongly about it (which I suspect you don't really, you are just looking for a way to blame girls for everything).

Second this.

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 13:09

Boys are denied their right to have a single sex group

No, they're not

So all of the boys were happy that their single sex group became mixed sex then?

None of them left when girls joined, because they wanted a space away from girls? When girls already had their own space?

McTufty · 13/03/2019 13:09

Maybe because different girls want different things - some may want a single sex organisation, some may not. I cannot believe the idiocy of your current argument.

RockyFlintstone · 13/03/2019 13:09

Boys didn't have a say though did they? Any boys who didn't like it had to leave.

But if girls hadn't joined, then it would have been forced to close anyway, so the boys would have had nothing left to like/dislike anyway?

10IAR · 13/03/2019 13:10

GIRLS DON'T HAVE THEIR OWN SPACE ANY MORE.

You hate girls, we get it. I'm irritated that I've wasted so much time trying to reason with a raging misogynist.

I need a coffee, and some fucking brain bleach.

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 13:11

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer
I mean the boys who wanted a single sex group. What happened to the ones who wanted it single sex?

I guess they had to leave then?

RockyFlintstone · 13/03/2019 13:12

And again - why did girls join a boys organisation if they want a single sex group?

Do you understand the concept of girls not being one homogenous group who all want to same thing?

Why do some kids go to mixed sex schools and some to single sex?!