AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

Some of the risks might be different if you mix the sexes others will be the same whether it's boys and girls or girls and girls.

Except in this case, the risk where you mix the sexes will never be known.

Weetabixandshreddies you're giving me a headache, this is the last time I'm going to engage with your misogynistic bullshit.

Boys and girls have a choice in their traditionally male organisation, as do their parents, with risk assessments, surveys and planning.

Girls do not within their apparently single sex organisation.

Removing choice from girls is misogyny in action.

Probably why you're so keen on it.

So girls can join a boys organisation

There isn't a boys organisation though is there? There used to be but then girls joined it, despite already having their own girls organisation.

Removing choice from girls is misogyny in action

And girls removed the boys choice by joining the traditionally boys organisation leaving boys with no single sex organisation.

So girls have a single sex organisation plus a mixed sex organisation to join. And that is ok is it?

My points are forcing girls to change in a communal area is not respecting privacy and segregating on the grounds of sex stops heterosexual sex from happening. But plenty of other safeguarding risks still remain within single sex segregated spaces.

Great argument weetabix, if something can’t be perfect then why do we care what happens at all?

Girls have been able to join Scouting since 1991.

Almost 30 years ago.

They write extensively about putting young people first and protecting them from harm.

No such effort from GG, who are still saying that someone with a penis isn't male.

The equality act allows for single sex organisations.

There is nothing. absolutely nothing stopping men from.standing up and saying you know what let's make scouts single sex again.

Are they doing that? Course not. Far easier to let the women bail them out, keep their kids able to go and do something they enjoy and get them out their hair fir an hour. So they can watch the foot ball or read the paper or whatever and then they can moan about all the women taking over

But plenty of other safeguarding risks still remain within single sex segregated spaces.

Right... So....?

Are you saying we should do away with single sex spaces then?

Oh, just carry on.

Insist that the only risk to girls are boys. Ignore the very real dangers that others girls present. Stick your heads in the sand until a girl close to you is picked on and bullied because they start puberty early or because they don't want to look like extras from TOWIE, or because they want to study and do well at school when that's not seen as cool, or when they are being encouraged to self harm or develop an eating disorder because they are deemed fat. Then come back and tell me how supportive and nurturing single sex spaces are for girls.

There isn't a boys organisation though is there? There used to be but then girls joined it, despite already having their own girls organisation.

Yes, and if females hadn't joined, both as participants and leaders, there might not even be a Scouts now as it was struggling to keep going in it's past form.

Girl Guides was doing fine as a single sex organisation as far as I know.

Insist that the only risk to girls are boys.

Who has said this?

Nobody said they'd be supportive and nurturing. You're making stuff up again.

What they would be is single sex, requiring anyone admitted to be biologically female.

You're not the only parent whose child has been bullied, you have no idea what my kids have faced because of bigots and prejudice against their disability.

Just because the system failed your child, doesn't mean you have the right to remove protection from other girls.

Because that's what I'm reading. You had a tough time, your DD had a tough time, so every girl has to?

Not a hope in hell.

There is nothing. absolutely nothing stopping men from.standing up and saying you know what let's make scouts single sex again.

A) because they shouldn't have to. It was an organisation set up for boys. Girls should never have joined. It shouldn't now be for boys to have to try and make it single sex when it already was.

B)why did girls join? They had their own organisation. What did scouts have that appealed so much that girls removed boys single sex space to go there?

Nobody has said any of that weetabix. Your posts here have been an exercise in whataboutery and obfuscation.

Safeguarding is about minimising risk. A really easy way to do that is single sex spaces.

That does not mean that single sex spaces are risk free and there will be (or should be) plenty of other safeguarding measures in place to further reduce risk within those single sex spaces.

By the way, I'm not talking about schools here. I'm not really in favour of single sex schools, not for my own children anyway. I didn't have a good time at my all girls school, some of the girls were bloody horrible.

None of that means I would be comfortable changing in front of a male and I wouldn't want my DD doing that either. I am talking about sleeping, changing, shower facilities here to be clear.

Because they shouldn't have to

There was a vote. They decided to let it happen to save the scouts. If men chose to not step up just what is it you would have preferred to happen.

There isn't a boys organisation though is there? There used to be but then girls joined it, despite already having their own girls organisation

They were invited

Youre making it sound like they just rocked up and insisted on staying

The BOYS organisation said 'we dont have anough boys...shall we close?' And then someone said 'well if we open it to girls then we can keep it open' and the BOYS organisation said ' fuck yeah thats an awesome idea'

And then they said 'hey girls would you like to join the beavers and cubs and scouts' and some girls said 'yes please'

The end

RockyFlintstone
But that wasn't up to girls to involve themselves in was it? There might well have been a resurgence in boys going. But it's gone now.

And if guides were doing so well why did girls need to join scouts? They had an organisation. It's not like guides closed. Guides continues so why not go there?

that girls removed boys single sex space to go there?

The girls did not remove the boys space

Stop being silly

And for the boys who didn't want it? Where did they go when their single sex organisation became mixed?

But that wasn't up to girls to involve themselves in was it?

They didn't involve themselves. They were invited to join because the Scouts decided that if they didn't open up to girls they might have to close. And now girls joining and female leaders being allowed has meant that Scouts isn't closing.

But that wasn't up to girls to involve themselves in was it? There might well have been a resurgence in boys going. But it's gone now.

Thats how inviting works

Would you like to join

Yes pease

WELL YOU CANT YOU SELFISH FUCKERS ITS JUST A BIG TRAP TO SEE HOW SELFISH GIRLS ARE TO THE POOR BOYS WHO CANT BE ARSED TO JOIN SCOUTS

im just gonna join in with the silliness now

The girls did not remove the boys space

Stop being silly

How did they not?

It was a boys single sex organisation.
Girls joined so it became mixed sex.

So where is the boys space then?

Why are you blaming women for that.

If men had stepped up it wouldn't have been necessary would it.

And were all of the boys in agreement? I bet they weren't.

And the difference with trans girls joining guides? The organisation has agreed to them joining. Exactly the same as the scouts organisation agreeing for girls to join.