AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

They'd have had to leave whether girls joined or not.

Because it wouldn't have existed without girls joining, therefore they'd have left a defunct organisation.

Or they'd have left because they didn't like the sex segregated facilities available to them.

I guess they had to leave then?

There wouldn't have been anything to leave if they hadn't opened it to girls?

Maybe because different girls want different things - some may want a single sex organisation, some may not. I cannot believe the idiocy of your current argument.
Then the answer is for girls to change their organisation surely? To make it what they wanted it to be. Not to join the boys group because it looked more fun. Leaving boys who wanted a single sex group with nothing.

weetabix

Again speaking only of the beavers and cubs i know about no one left

The other scout group in the village refused to take girls for years afterwards...but it was a very boring group so that was fine

Im going out now so not ignoring any replies on purpose

Then the answer is for girls to change their organisation surely? To make it what they wanted it to be. Not to join the boys group because it looked more fun. Leaving boys who wanted a single sex group with nothing.

OK youre just not listening now are you.

Scouts. Became. Mixed. Sex. Because. They. Were. Struggling. To. Keep. Going. As. A. Single. Sex. Organisation. So. Opened. It. Up. To. Girls. And. Female. Leaders. To. Keep. It. Going.

Not. Because. Girls. Insisted. On. Taking. It. Over.

If. Females. Didn't. Join. Scouts. It. Would. Have. Been. Forced. To. Close.

Why do some kids go to mixed sex schools and some to single sex?!

And there are boys, girls and mixed sex schools.

How about if it were boys and mixed sex schools?

That's not fair is it?

If there were a boys group, a girls group and a mixed sex group then great.

But theirs a (now) mixed sex group and a girls group. With people screaming blue murder that possibly a trans girl might join. The same people who are outright defending girls being able to join the boys group with the argument that boys can set up their own group if they don't like it.

Why don't girls, who aren't happy about trans girls joining guides, set up their own group then?

Why da fuck are you still blaming CHILDREN

Whats wrong with you

Grown ups make these decisions not children

I made the decision to enrol dd in rainbows

I made the decision to enrol her in beavers

I made the decision to take her ballet and karate

I did

Im opening the door now

Have a good afternoon

Oh fuck me

Im gonna be late

With people screaming blue murder that possibly a trans girl might join. The same people who are outright defending girls being able to join the boys group with the argument that boys can set up their own group if they don't li

Show me where i have screamed blue murder about transgirls

Or are you doing that irritating 'you all' thing

RIGHT IM OFF...

Sums your tactics up neatly Weetabix

Do have a lovely day.

Your argument makes no sense at all weetabix. If your argument is guides should be mixed sex, ok, possibly the scouts thing is relevant.

But it isn’t. The issue isn’t whether guides should be mixed sex like scouts as otherwise it’s unfair on boys, but whether as a single sex organisation it should permit male children.

what is the difference between allowing trans girls to attend and allowing boys to attend GG?

I don't know why you don't just admit what your real point is.

None of the arguments stack up

Its about
Privacy
Safety
Single sex spaces

Except it isn't. Because privacy and safety aren't guaranteed no matter who is or isn't there. And no one is at all bothered about boys rights to single sex spaces because you think you can justify taking them away or that by telling boys to set up their own makes removing it in the first place ok. You ignore the same advice that if you don't like the guides then you too could set up your own group. And it's ok that girls joined scouts because it looked fun and it might have closed down anyway (or it might not).

McTufty

I think guides should become mixed sex, yes.

Women didnt remove anything.

The dads and boys who never showed up did .

But of course dont let that get in the way of your pure hatred for girls and the fact naughty wimmin are saying no to men

Because privacy and safety aren't guaranteed no matter who is or isn't there.

Who said they were? Safeguarding and risk assessments aren't about eliminating risk completely, because that is impossible. They are about making everything as safe as it possibly can be, whilst still being able to do the thing you are trying to do.

And no one is at all bothered about boys rights to single sex spaces because you think you can justify taking them away or that by telling boys to set up their own makes removing it in the first place ok.

Who decided to make Scouts mixed sex? And why?

Finally we get somewhere! I don’t care if guides becomes mixed sex. But being single sex and admitting males is a totally different thing.

Your previous post is abject nonsense. Safety and privacy can’t be guaranteed but steps can be taken to provide them to the greatest extent possible. That’s a simple concept and I’m not sure why you’re struggling with it.

None of us object to boys having a single sex space but if you don’t understand how single sex provision affects girls more than boys then you have no grasp at all of the issues driving the need for such provision.

I think guides should become mixed sex, yes.

Why? It doesn't need to be mixed sex in order to continue, so why make it mixed sex?

Do you mean as 'revenge on the girls' because Scouts had to become mixed sex in order to be able to continue?

How lovely.......

10IAR
That's it? No one can possibly have a different opinion without being a troll can they?

Your opinion isn't different Weetabix it's bigoted, misogynistic and crucially, utterly irrelevant to the issue originally being discussed.

Which was girls being ignored and sidelined. Which you've done, spectacularly well, and managed to make a thread about girls become a thread about how males are so oppressed.

That's not a different opinion, it's absenting yourself from reality!

weetabix the thing is your arguments haven’t engaged with what we are talking about. We are talking about an ostensibly single sex provider allowing trans girls but not keeping parents informed.

Yet you come along and fillibuster about the fact scouts went mixed sex and girls sometimes harm girls, which are totally separate issues.

Troll tactics are inevitably, whataboutery (tick), obfuscation (tick) and derailing for a reaction (tick).

Not exactly a leap is it? Unlike the utter shite you've been spouting for 30 pages.

and managed to make a thread about girls become a thread about how males are so oppressed.

Yes, it's actually quite something to watch really!

There would be considerably less objection, I suspect, to the suggestion that GG became mixed sex if the organisation was actually explicit about it, explained their rationale and invited views, opinions and comments.

Pretending that it's not mixed sex, thus denying girls and their parents to express their views, opinions and needs (unless they want to be labelled a bigot) is the problem.

And their rationale isn't in the interests of existing and future girl members - it doesn't need to expand to survive. It's in the interest of boys (unless you're a trans boys and then you don't count. At all. Ever. In any way.)