AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

The last figure I can find per year of woman was 2009 where it was 3,465 woman.

Can you link to that? That's extraordinary.

The difference being that allowing your child to sleep in a tent supervised by a woman is done with your consent. Allowing your child to sleep in a tent with boy or being supervised by a man is kept secret from you.

However it is putting a lot of people off feminism as they come across as really horrible intolerant people.

It's the opposite actually. Traffic to the feminist board on this site has increased 12 fold in one year. It's one of the most popular boards on the site. And yes feminists will still keep talking about women and their rights, despite you wanting them to stop.

I used to think I was a feminist but now I would never identify as one as they all seem so horrible and anti male and anti trans.

Feminists don't 'identify' as feminists. If supporting women and girls is something that you can be put off by because of some women on a website that you don't like, then I don't suppose you were very serious in the first place.

Nordic

What is your problem.qith girls having a girl only space.

The majority of parents arent sex offenders but that doesn't mean I can be allowed in a school to wander around as I please.

The majority of people arent thieves but we dont go letting customers behind the counter in a shop.

The whole point of safeguarding is to ensure if even the tiny minority of people are.Dodgy then they are prevented from doing whatever it is they want to do.

No decent person assumes they are under any form.of accusation being checked out or being prevented from.doing something.

Wtf is your problem.with girls.expecting to be in a girl.nly place.in the girl guides.

Why do you take it so personally that they dont want any.boys there? Why do you hate girls so.much

Why cant they have any privacy or dignity? Cos boys night be upset?

Seriously?

The last figure I can find per year of woman was 2009 where it was 3,465 woman. So statistically you’re 659% more likely to be sexually abused by a woman than a child under 10.

Bullshit. Here are the stats from Statistics on Women and the Criminal Justice System 2017. A Ministry of Justice publication under Section 95 of the Criminal Justice Act 1991

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759770/women-criminal-justice-system-2017..pdf

To be clear.
Are people on here suggesting that gender dysphasia isn't real. And that children are identifying as trans because they are born eg a boy but they like girls things and so they must therefore be a boy? And presumably if we didn't gender things like toys etc then it just wouldn't be a problem and no one would have gender dysphoria?

*dysphoria

And this from the Times last year. Women do commit sexual offences but 120 compared to 7,357. Women make up 1.6% of sex offenders. It's very much a male problem.

are people on here suggesting that gender dysphasia isn't real

Nope

And that children are identifying as trans because they are born eg a boy but they like girls things and so they must therefore be a boy

Nope

nd presumably if we didn't gender things like toys etc then it just wouldn't be a problem and no one would have gender dysphoria?

Nope

And the fact remains that this isn't about risk of assault alone. It's about giving girls space, privacy and dignity. The right to have their boundaries respected.

I do NOT believe that every man or boy is a threat, far from it. But the evidence is that males (and trans girls and women are Male) are far more likely to commit these sorts of offences. Children of both sexes deserve bodily privacy and autonomy and single sex spaces is one way of achieving that and minimising risk of assault by a male against a female.

Once again, girls are expected to give way to others, to put boys needs ahead of their own. Why?

Those are only the conviction rates though. I would imagine a man who was sexually assaulted by a woman is significantly less likely to report it. Also women are less likely to be convicted than men. And while we're at it if sexism truely bothers you how about we as women start demanding that female predators face the same punishments as men.

So it isn't that people don't believe in gender dysphoria, just that people aren't born in the wrong bodies?

I went by reports as opposed to convictions on both as I don’t believe conviction rates give a good analysis where sexual abuse is concerned.
But the link you posted is newer so will read that for new figures. The SS posted does not relate to the discussion though.

The first SS I mean. That is relating to long custodial sentances and only mentions rape not sexual assault. Woman can not commit rape

WTAF!!
rape is defined as forcing a person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will. True it is typically committed by men but are you trying to tell me that if a woman drugs a man and has sex with him it's not rape? Or if a female teacher has sex with her 15 year old student it's not rape?

There is an issue with reporting and conviction rates for all sexual assaults and rapes. In fact, rape prosecutions are falling while reports to the police are rising www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/26/rape-prosecutions-fall-despite-police-reports-rising/

I am constantly amazed that women will ignore the evidence in front of their eyes - that violence against women, including sexual violence - is almost exclusively perpetrated by males and the number of women committing similar offences is dwarfed by the number of men.

I am NOT calling your son, your husband, your friends, sex offenders. It's not personal, I'm talking about populations. Safeguarding policies of a national organisation also have to be based on population wide stats because they cannot possibly take into account all the individuals who may be involved in GG residentials at any one time.

Those are only the conviction rates though. I would imagine a man who was sexually assaulted by a woman is significantly less likely to report it.

Less than 1% of male in female rapes result in convictions. Many many women do not even report it because the horror of the process which ends in no further action, is often worse than the rape. Do you genuinely think women sexually assault men more than men sexually assault women?

Also women are less likely to be convicted than men. Actually, many many men don't get convicted. There is a thread on FWR if you are really interested on what exactly a man has to do to a woman to get prosecuted. Details given by the victim, that are so horrific i can't stomach it, and yet -no prosecution.

And while we're at it if sexism truely bothers you how about we as women start demanding that female predators face the same punishments as men. Women are regularly given worse punishments for the same crime as men.

rape is defined as forcing a person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will

Not in the UK. The only way of getting prosecuted for rape if you are a female is collusion with a male who committed the act.

Well it was, until they started gaming the stats by including men aka penis havers.

I am NOT calling your son, your husband, your friends, sex offenders. It's not personal, I'm talking about populations. Safeguarding policies of a national organisation also have to be based on population wide stats because they cannot possibly take into account all the individuals who may be involved in GG residentials at any one time

And even if every man and boy in the world was an absolute sweetheart, why is it so wrong to not want to have to put their bra on in front of a boy or worry about getting your period amongst boys. Or be taken to the toilet and assisted by a man or is it tough crap if her legs or bladder dont work and she needs personal care?

What is the acceptable level of rape and abuse and period shaming and harassment a girl has to endure before she is deemed worthy of being able to shower without a boy there?

Wtf is wrong with some of you

So it isn't that people don't believe in gender dysphoria, just that people aren't born in the wrong bodies?

I don't think anyone denies gender dysphoria exists.

But firstly, it's transphobic apparently to assume it's necessary in order to be trans and secondly it appears to be caused for a variety of reasons.

There is also an 80% desistance rate once a child reaches puberty, unless you're mermaids, in which case it's the opposite.

There is a considerable amount of evidence that, particularly for girls, there is a social contagion element, as there is with anorexia. Hence the phenomenon of ROGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria). And 76 (I think or it might be 46, I can't remember) children in one Brighton School identifying as trans at the same time.

One thing is for sure, as much as anorexics aren't actually fat, boys aren't actually girls.

So what they are identifying with, or as, are stereotypes that they have seen. And the degree of anxiety this affords them.

Or, often with girls, that they have been abused. And are trying to identify out of it.

It's not really something, in my opinion, that the girl guides should nail any partisan colours to. It's a mental health condition that should be outside their remit.

Particularly as supporting the notion that boys can think or feel like a 'girl', is damaging to all concerned. But perhaps not quite as damaging as telling girls who think or feel 'like a boy' that they're not welcome.

Sorry i wasnt attacking you agnes

Most of us can see it's not personal and some posters are so "namalt" and "women are just as bad" they have forgotten there are other reasons too

Sackrifice
I never said that women sexually assault men more than men sexually assault women. Just pointed out that some women are a danger too.
Also believe me I know from personal experience that many many men are not convicted or even make it to trial.
Also I have never said here that men are not responsible for the majority of assaults on women and by the way men, boys and girls, but that to pretend that women do not also pose a risk is completely naive.

@Generationrenter

The first SS I mean. That is relating to long custodial sentances and only mentions rape not sexual assault. Woman can not commit rape

The report is confusing because I also thought that rape could only be committed by a man. But there are one or two females in that graph. Pre-op transwomen perhaps?

The SS is relevant because it shows how serious, violent crime (including sex offences) resulting in long sentences is almost exclusively a male issue. Most women in prison are there on short sentences for TV licence evasion and shop lifting.

So it isn't that people don't believe in gender dysphoria, just that people aren't born in the wrong bodies?

How can anyone be born in the wrong body? All humans on the planet are born in their body and it is the only one they have.

Around 80/85% of men who identify as trans keep their penises, so what bit of their body do they feel is wrong?