AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

Honestly statistically the odds that a) there may be a trans child at brownies b) she will be in the same tent as your daughter c) she is a sexual predator d) she chooses and manages to attack your daughter given they are normally closely supervised are so low, they're akin to winning the lotto.. she is much much more at risk traveling in the car to the event.

And parents can mitigate against the risk by using appropriate car seats. That's the point of an accurate risk assessment.

*What is girls stuff? Think.' So you think that means sexually abusing a girl?hmm^

No.

Not sure why you think that.

crazycrazy

I agree that the OP’s child is unlikely to be assaulted, but it isn’t only about that - what if she doesn’t feel comfortable getting changed in front of someone who until 6 weeks ago she knew as a boy? Is she a bigot?

Could someone defending the GG policy please engage with this point which loads of us are raising but no one is answering?

Rufus - so what does it mean?

Only those that are bigoted will worry about sharing spaces with trans children, as such it’s up to them to read policies.

Except those objecting are not objecting because trans. They are objecting to male people. Fairly sure they would be fine with transboys being in guides, due to transboys actually being female. So its not the 'trans' part, its the sex.

As I said earlier, my main issue is how GG refuse to be honest though. They fluff around and refuse to actually say they are now mixed sex, even though they are mixed sex.

It is completely normal to keep an eye on girls when they are with boys to make sure that the girls are not at risk. From the bigger strength and more blustery behaviour and above.

Anyone turning their head because they don't want to appear to upset the boy, is really doing girls a disservice.

I hope to goodness none of those turning their heads on here are not in charge of the welfare of girls in any way. There is a huge issue in women not wanting to upset men, as shown by the utter inability to grasp the basics of human interaction.

I knew it was bad but bloody hell; the shitshow on here is appalling.

If you don't believe in sex segregation, then fine. I understand your point of view. I don't agree, but it's a view.

If you do believe in sex segregation, but not under certain circumstances, and neither the girls, nor their parents are to be informed, then that's what I don't get.

Saying the words trans seems to be a magic pass that eliminates all safeguarding that people would otherwise agree with.

And I want to know why.
Is it just numbers? That it's unlikely? You disagree with it, but in the scheme of things it's only a small number so why bother?

Or is it that you think a boy identifying as a girl is different, somehow?

Because what is the difference? What is it?

Is it because they think like a girl...

Especially boys who have been told, by mermaids, Stonewall and GIRES that if they like girl stuff, they are thinking 'like a girl'

How are they getting away with that!
What is girls' stuff?

Pink, dresses, glitter, makeup, dolls....stereotypically girl stuff

Sorry that was for vulpine

Sak your fist mitigating post doesn’t make sense.

Safeguarding against fatal injury in a car accident is a world away from the highly unlikely scenario the previous poster alluded to.

Rufus - so what does it mean?

Not Rufus but...

It means that a majority of those with gender dysphoria have it because they like 'girl's things', clothes, dolls, etc etc.

Liking 'girl's' things if you are a boy, does not mean you are a girl. It means you are a boy who likes things. It does not mean you are in the wrong body, nobody is in the wrong body. It does not mean you have any medical condition. It does not mean you should sterilise yourself. Just like the things and get on with life.

Think about it in more depth than just accepting that it is in doctor's interests to diagnose as they are in a conflict of interest situation here.

Sak your fist mitigating post doesn’t make sense.

Safeguarding against fatal injury in a car accident is a world away from the highly unlikely scenario the previous poster alluded to.

You cannot say it is highly unlikely unless you have assessed the risk appropriately. That's the point. It may be highly unlikely, if you are assessing the risk against a girl sexually assaulting another. The risk is higher when it is a boy. If you pretend it is a girl when it is a boy, then you are not risk assessing properly.

It is like doing a risk assessment for working at heights, and assessing the risk of falling at 10 feet, as if it was 10 inches. And putting mitigations in by giving them knee pads when they should be giving them harnesses.

DrSpouse I'm not sure I'd trust Scouts either, unless I knew the leader didn't think TWAW.*
*
This one doesn't.

I know there have been goady people on this thread, but there also might be one or two who genuinely don't know.

So this is the spectrum that your children are being asked to pick from, if the school has training by places like Allsorts, GIRES, mermaids or Stonewall. It refers to gender identity but switches to sex for all intents and purposes.

And the girl guides and brownies are buying it hook, line and sinker.

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/how-parents-are-being-shut-out-of-the-transgender-debate/

Sak your bigger strength and blustery behaviour post is just appalling. My dd has never needed keeping an eye on when playing boys thanks. She’s not done delicate flower and the boys she played with weren’t thugs. No staff wouldn’t be keeping an eye on girls to protect against blustery behaviour and bigger strength.

And the risk from boy or girls on brownie camp is negligible. Either scenario has negligible risk so involving a trans child doesn’t move it out of negligible as such the op is making a big fuss over nothing.

Seriously

nordic

I’ll try again asking your response to the privacy and getting changed point?

And the risk from boy or girls on brownie camp is negligible

If it is negligible, why do social services insist on female sex segregation in the first place?

It's a fucking mystery.

Gonna take a while to crack that one.

Anyone got Sherlock Holmes' phone number?

Or Miss Marple?

Most wouldn’t care, there will be loos if in the unlikely event a trans child was there and in your tent. We are talking shoving a pair of pjs on are we not.

Do social services get involved with female sex segregation at brownies and guides?

Datun: you are the one who has used the word pretending

No, I directly quoted you.

Making it mixed sex, but pretending it's because there are boys who 'think like a girl', is unutterably sexist.

And then returning to a supervised tent filled with girls and their leaders.