AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

Let's try another sum
Very few none.

But why do we have single sex organisations again?
Why is GG not mixed?

So we’re agreed then, very few boys are sex offenders.

Who is we?

It is impossible to say how many boys or men are sex offenders, bearing in mind the huge majority are never reported, and of those that we know about, only 1% even get to be prosecuted.

Males commit 98% of sex crimes

Is not the same as

98% of males commit sex crimes

I still don't get why the 98% is relevant in this case. What a fearful way to see the world.

It's entirely personal how you phrase it. The fact is, it's statistically accurate.

Which is why, in certain circumstances, we segregate by sex.

The girl guides do not have to do this, but I do have to say they're not doing it.

It’s not impossible. It’s blatantly clear the vast maj of boys aren’t sex abusers.

You’re trying to scaremonger.

*they

I still don't get why the 98% is relevant in this case. What a fearful way to see the world.

Yeah, right! We are all making this shit up.

What men do to stay safe: Nothing

What women do to stay safe:

1. Walk with our keys grasped between our fingers in case we need to use them as a weapon.

1. Making sure to have the correct key out and ready before we get to our door

1. When someone is walking closely behind us on the street, we stop to pretend to make a phone call or otherwise occupy ourselves to allow them to pass in front of us.

1. Walk past our destination, particularly if it's our home, if someone has been trailing us for a while.

1. Scope out potential safe havens if someone appears to be following us.

1. Stay in well-lit areas at night even if it means taking a longer route.

1. Switch up our running routes to avoid potential stalkers learning our route.

1. Change direction if a car appears to be following us while we're walking on foot.

9.Run outdoors with only one earbud in to keep the other on our surroundings.

10. Pretend to listen to music while walking by men who attempt to engage with us.

11. Change the locks when housekeys are misplaced.

12.Take alternative routes to avoid areas we know we are likely to face street harassment.

13. Cross the street when we see men who look like they might be drunk.

14. Late at night, cross to the other side of the street when anyone is walking towards us.

15. Avoid eye contact with men trying to get our attention.

16. Decide the cost of a taxi is worth it.

17. Avoid entering stairwells or elevators occupied by only one other person who is a stranger.

18. Text a friend before going out for a run or on a date with a stranger.

19. Avoid social situations if a man whose prior advance made us uncomfortable might be there.

20. Decide not to open Facebook messages from unknown men, who could see the message has been "Read" and become hostile and harassing.

21. Never open the door for someone we're not expecting and stay still until the doorbell stops ringing.

22. When bringing heavy bags and packages into the house or apartment, locking and unlocking the door with every trip.

23. Avoid sleeping naked in case of an intruder or on-looker.

24. Buy pepper spray: for the purse, for the car, one for the home.

25. Make sure we're not the only woman on the subway car or bus.

26. Avoid getting off at our bus or train stop if a man who has been staring exits at the same time.

27. Check our mirrors frequently while driving, noting characteristics and license plate numbers of cars trailing close behind.

28. Driving in a circle if we sense we might be followed.

29. Park next to a light post when it's dark outside.

30. Wear a hoodie when driving late at night to appear male to other drivers.

31. Check for an official city medallion number when entering a taxi.

32. Never leave a drink unattended at a party.

33. Run outside in baggy clothes, even if it's hot, to decrease the chances of unsolicited commentary on our anatomy.

34.Making sure we have enough cell phone battery life before leaving one location to last until we get to another.

It’s not impossible. It’s blatantly clear the vast maj of boys aren’t sex abusers.hmm

Haha. What's a little goal post mover you are. I was telling you that 98% of sexually violent crime is committed by men - not lesbians.

Therefore your premise that lesbians pose as much of a risk to females, is wrong.

It’s not impossible.

Of course it is impossible to know how many males are sex offenders when most sex crimes are not even reported.

Otherwise we would know wouldn't we? If they were all reported and on a list?

Why did they bring in the upskirting law again?
Because of...???

This is a safeguarding issue and needs to be dealt with, yanbu at all and I would raise it with the highest member of staff

Sackrifice - as someone who's been the victim of a violent sexual attack, I still refuse to see the world as a nest of dangerous attacking male vipers that you seem to think are lurking on every corner. Life is too short to see danger in every situation.

Jesus Sak I don’t do half those things and some I would expect my boys to do as much as my girls.

I volunteered with GG for a couple of months, I left because the leader was dull and uninterested in changing things up a bit ( they didnt do badges or anything) during my couple of months there I was NEVER DBS checked NEVER asked for references and OFTEN left alone with he girls, admittedly, never on a 1:1 basis but often maybe me and 2 girls waiting on parents.

The fact that GG is inclusive to transgirls and not transboys says it all really. As does the fact that trans-men cannot inherit male peerage. TERFs

You do realise men are actually the victim of most personal crimes?
They also commit the most, obviously. But saying men do ‘nothing’ to stay safe and woman do everything does minimise the fact that men are, statistically, more likely to be attacked than a woman.

If people want to argue we shouldn’t see males as a risk because most of them aren’t, and that we therefore shouldn’t have sex segregated spaces, that’s one thing.

To say we should have sex segregated spaces but we should allow male people into them without a risk assessment, that just makes no sense at all.

Exactly McTufty
Especially when other male people (the ones that don't wear dresses) HAVE risk assessments, and when GG is lying about the presence of male people in female-only spaces.

Generationrenter that depends on the crime. Victims of sexual violence are predominantly female. And that is the crime women are worried about when people with penises are allowed into spaces that have traditionally been sex segregated.

Jesus Sak I don’t do half those things and some I would expect my boys to do as much as my girls.

Why?

Because several are ludicrous, some don’t apply to me/ have never happened and some could apply equally to my boys.

As a mother of boys and a little girl I feel very uncomfortable with the tone of some posters here.

There appears to be an assumption as others have said that the male sex is generally deviant. There also seems to be an assumption that a child that identifies as the opposite sex is also more than likely a deviant. Attacks on little girls by little boys are not common events. In fact I wonder how common attacks on girls/women by transgender women /girls are. Do we really think it is beneficial to raise our girls to be afraid of the opposite sex, and transgender children? Is our deep mistrust of people who identify as transgender a good reason to alienate very vulnerable children?

I am not naive I have known people who were abused and who have abused. I also did voluntary work with children in settings where abuse was common place. My children are in beavers they have been given sex education by me and I have explained about being safe with both adults and children.

I hope that they grow up to be tolerant people comfortable with other genders/sexual orientations. I see no benefit of keeping children apart in such instances but I'm sure you care little about my opinion.

There appears to be an assumption as others have said that the male sex is generally deviant. There also seems to be an assumption that a child that identifies as the opposite sex is also more than likely a deviant

Could you show me where anyone has said either of these two things please?

What is your belief as to the reason we have sex segregated spaces?

Teach if you think it's fine to have mixed sex sleepovers, you go ahead and let your children have them.
If you had a child who had been abused you might think differently. If your DD starts her periods she might think differently.
Please don't tell your children that their wish for privacy is wrong and that it makes you feel uncomfortable, though.

and some could apply equally to my boys.

Why?

I'm assuming it's not hordes of lesbians you are worried about ?

There appears to be an assumption as others have said that the male sex is generally deviant.

No there isn't.

There is an assumption that sexual deviancy is generally a male trait, not a female trait.

As backed up by statistics, absolutely everywhere.

And it doesn't matter how they identify.

There are 14,000 men in prison for sexual offences, and 120 women. There are 120 transwomen in prison and half are there for sex offences.

Recognising male pattern criminality, is not the same as saying all men conform to it.

This is pretty basic.

People who call women names for recognising male pattern criminality, makes them part of the problem.

Girl guides was set up to support girls. However they present or conform, or not.

It was set up to empower girls, to motivate girls, to inspire girls.

It was to allow them time away from boys, away from the male gaze, to be female with nothing to temper or inform that.

With nothing to live up to but themselves.

Making it mixed sex changes all that.

Making it mixed sex, but pretending it's because there are boys who 'think like a girl', is unutterably sexist.

Making it sexist, but not informing any of the parents who want to send their girls there, is disgraceful.

Calling that out and being criticised for it is misogynistic.